Come ON people!!

[Asgardia]

Okay, so if you guys don't mind... I am going to have a little rant. This is something that has been on my mind and now I actually have a place to express it.

I seriously makes me ANGRY that people just don't keep themselves clean enough. No one likes getting sick and *v or *d, yet a lot of people do nothing to prevent it. I have even told people that you have to ingest the virus (noro for example) and if don't do that and wash your hands etc you will be okay, and then seconds later I see them shrug it off and eat random chips off a random table at work.

I mean... if you KNOW what you need to do to not get sick, why aren't you doing it? I realize not everyone knows it exactly, but when you do... UGH. I hope someone else understands where I am coming from. I don't know if people are just lazy, they don't care or maybe it doesn't really even bother them if they get sick in that way.

Knowing what I know now, I would NEVER just eat something or stick my hands in my mouth without washing them first. There's just no way.

[Grace47]

Oh lord, yes. I have ranted about my relatives here about that very topic. Geez Louise, my aunt has a nursing degree and refuses to wash her hands before meals no matter how many times you ask her or set the hand sanitizer right in front of her. I don't see how I can be any more plain.

[Kinetic]

I see your point, but from a non-emet perspective the extent to which we care about hygiene would be above average at least. The truth is that a lot of people just don't have the time to CARE about handwashing before every meal. Obviously it only takes 30 seconds to wash your hands, but to remember doing that before EVERY meal is sometimes difficult even for an emet.
I admit eating random food off a table not knowing who last touched it is stodgy to most, but 95% of the time people do not get sick enough to consider "is what i am doing now a risk to my health?". Do you understand what I mean? Sure its not hard to wash your hands before a meal, but I will say some posts on here are worrying as a lot of emets deal with OCD. I cant say I feel OCD about handwashing, and honestly I dont really wash my hands before meals all the time because frankly I am not thinking about it, and to me this is probably a good thing. Besides, the immune system generally puts up with a lot. We probably ingest stomach virus particles EVERY DAY without realising because its just impossible to completely avoid it without shutting yourself off from society.

See, the pay off with catching noro is - you get sick for one or two days, then recover and move on with your life. With emetophobia, you fret and fret about the what ifs and waste energy and time on things that are 95% of the time, nothing significant. It literally CONSUMES chunks of your life and you cant enjoy things as much. Hey, I dont eat out in restaurants anymore because of ONE mild food poisoning incident. Well, this logic is toxic. Just because you dont wash your hands once, or eat something your not 105% sure of where it came from/who touched it does not mean you will get sick. Sure its a risk, but a relatively low one to the average healthy human, and is it worth letting control your life and every decision you make? Of course I am talking more broadly here than what you posted about but seriously, the other day I asked myself - how long am I willing to let this phobia continue manipulating my life and my decisions?

Its okay to be clean everyone, dont get me wrong. But there is a fine line between hygiene-conscious and OCD behaviour. I guess over the past month or so I have realised that some things are just not worth getting too worked up about. But thats just my opinion, not intending to offend.

[Grace47]

Oh, I eat out all the time. I do sanitize after touching the menus and I clean the condiments. I live with an autoimmune disease. Even if I wasn't an emet, I would still do this, because I do have a compromised immune system. I do expect my family to be courteous and wash their hands when handling the same spoons or serving dishes that I do, because they know I have this disease and how easy it is for me to get sick and how hard it is for me to get well. What makes a normal person sick for a day makes me sick for several days or even weeks. Colds and flus easily turn into pneumonia for me. Since they can't be one bit courteous and wash their hands in my home, I don't let them get any of their own food or drinks. Obviously, they can't handle it. And I refuse to eat at their houses ever again. That's a recipe for noro!

I have gone to potlucks with other families, but usually when the hand sanitizer is setting out, they use it. Only my family (and only some of them) are belligerently anti hand washing. I don't mind eating and sharing dishes with other people as long as they clean their hands.

[HEH18]

Grace I definitely think you are a different situation, its totally understandable that people should show common courtesy due to your bodies inability to fight off germs.

Generally I totally agree with kinetic. My hubby is one of those people, although he will wash if I ask him to, but to him its not a big deal. He doesn't think about getting sick, and if he does, oh well. He's a soldier and has to deal with not being able to wash or sanitize when he wants to. Has learned to cope with no running water or showers for weeks on end. And to be honest, he rarely gets sick! I envy that he isn't consumed as we are by this phobia, and have been pushing myself to not let it dictate my actions like I used to.

[Erica1649]

You definitely sound like me. Maybe us being emet we are overly cautions about these things, but I would rather be safe than sorry. Yeah and def something falls on a table out it goes!

[AoD]

I don't know, my parents wash hands when they come home so that the house is "safe" so they eat without washing their hands at home (so do I), but in public they'll wash their hands before eating. So I don't think it's an emet thing to wash hands before eating, it's just gross not to do it.

[Kinetic]

Grace in your situation I completely understand. If your immunity is compromised then extra care is required and I hope I didnt offend you in my little rant. Its just hard reading so many posts about red raw hands and constant cleaning on this forum. I couldn't let my life reach that sort of point and I hope those who deal with OCD are seeking help for it.

[chris_alice]

I don't know.... when I wasn't emetophobic I didn't wash my hands unless I had used the bathroom or unless they were visibly dirty because I wasn't paranoid about getting sick... and I didn't. I never got sick except for the odd cold here and there. AFTER emetophobia, I feel sick to some degree almost every day AND I actually get sick MORE often than before emet... probably because being so crazy-stressed-paranoid all the time lowers the immune system. So unless you have a compromised immune system, or unless there is an outbreak where you work/live, people don't get more sick more often if they're not as clean as we emets think they should be. Oh how I wish I could go back to my carefree and healthy days pre-emet. Life was good then with my dirty hands and all. Sigh.

[Cynna]

Love Kinetic's post.

Grace's situation is different from the average emet.

It will be spring soon Asgardia. The season will be over soon.

[Asgardia]

^ Thanks everyone.

When I talk about washing my hands before eating, I only mean if I am going to be using my fingers to eat with. If I am going to be eating something with a fork (or something that I CAN eat with a fork), then I won't wash my hands (unless they are really dirty or something) as they won't actually be going in my mouth. I guess I get confused with the people who don't wash before using their hands to eat. Maybe it's less about my phobia and more about it just being plain gross, lol. I DO realize that you won't automatically get sick by not washing and it is normal for the majority of people to not think so much about it. I wish I could say I was that laid bad to be that carefree, but you know... I'm broken at this point.

[Grace47]

I have noticed if hand sanitizer is available, most people will use it. Perhaps you could talk to your work about keeping hand sanitizer available in the break room.

I'm not offended. I have noticed that many people even non emets keep hand sanitizer on them and use it liberally. And others even if the hand sanitizer is sitting on the table available to everyone won't use it. There are people who even if everyone else is washing their hands will not wash. That's what upsets me. That's what my relatives do.

[nagisa]

I agree with you! Although I am not obsessed to the point of using hand sanitizer when I eat at home, I always make sure to wash my hands whenever I've been out, and before I eat out. I don't think people need to be washing everything 24/7, but even a 'normal' person should try to think a bit before spreading germs.

My brother sometimes does things to spite me because I am afraid. This annoys me alot!
My dad will also sometimes eat old food just because I specifically tell him not to. Talk about a great understanding familiy.

[MrsFox]

The thing that bothers me most is when people clearly have a sv and STILL insist on dragging themselves into work, even if they are only sent home later. I appreciate that it's not always easy to call in sick, but it bothers me that so many people don't think twice about infecting other people - this goes for things like the common cold and flu as well.

[emet-ana]

Hi Asgardia,

I feel the same! Washing hands after using the toilet and before eating or preparing food really should be part of everybody's normal routine, along with brushing teeth and sleeping at night.

Unfortunately some people don't really consider hygiene and illness to be related and others aren't really very bothered about getting ill. To be perfectly honest if there was no such thing as v*/noro/fp etc. and I lived in a family with healthy people and was healthy myself then I imagine that I wouldn't care quite as much about hand hygiene. In reality I wash my hands a lot. My point is that if you weren't afraid about getting ill then you might not think it was worth going out of your way to wash with soap and water. Also in my experience non-emets seem to be more bothered about their hands getting dried out from soap and about the effort involved whereas we perceive it as '20 second-wash to prevent 24 hours of illness'.

xx

[seabreeze001]

I think back to when I was a kid in school. I rarely washed my hands. I don't even remember them having us wash our hands before lunch. I rarely got sick too. I had a cold here and there and I had food poisening. Maybe immune systems were MUCH better when young - I don't know. I don't wash my hands as much at home as I do when I'm at work or out in some other public place. I don't touch certain things like hand rails and door knobs creep me out. Again... the news media has put the fear in me. On the AM shows they do reports on what kind of germs are on handrails and shopping carts and have found fecal material on them and that just grosses me out. So, I"m way more careful out in public areas because of that.

[hairyfairy]

I can remember how lax I was about hygiene as a kid, & I find myself thinking that it was no wonder that I got sick on a regullar basis, but I don`t remember there ever being the amount of sickness being around like there is today.Maybe people have got waeker immune systems nowadays.

[Grace47]

I was sick a lot as a kid. I remember wondering how anyone could ever get perfect attendance. Even after MS, I have not been as sick as I was as a kid. My mother believed in that stupid exposure stuff - the more you things you get, the stronger your immune system. I'm sad to see this idea coming back.

[chris_alice]

I think back to when I was a kid in school. I rarely washed my hands. I don't even remember them having us wash our hands before lunch. I rarely got sick too. I had a cold here and there and I had food poisening. Maybe immune systems were MUCH better when young - I don't know. I don't wash my hands as much at home as I do when I'm at work or out in some other public place. I don't touch certain things like hand rails and door knobs creep me out. Again... the news media has put the fear in me. On the AM shows they do reports on what kind of germs are on handrails and shopping carts and have found fecal material on them and that just grosses me out. So, I"m way more careful out in public areas because of that.

Exactly! I never got sick as a kid except for the odd cold here and there. I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and we emets have WAYYY too much knowledge of how things are transmitted and whatnot. When I was a kid, I didn't even know what a germ or virus was so I didn't care. I just lived life like a normal person and was healthy. Now that I have all this knowledge, it's killing me psychologically.

[Kinetic]

Exactly! I never got sick as a kid except for the odd cold here and there. I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and we emets have WAYYY too much knowledge of how things are transmitted and whatnot. When I was a kid, I didn't even know what a germ or virus was so I didn't care. I just lived life like a normal person and was healthy. Now that I have all this knowledge, it's killing me psychologically.

Yes, yes, yes. This is exactly my point also. There is a point where the superiority gained from knowledge actually eats away at your capacity to live normally and without the knowledge impeding on your decisions. Sure it may make you more conscious and hygienic, but when it stops you from getting enjoyment out of life, you know its a problem that needs to be addressed. If handwashing takes more out of your day then say, doing your hair and make-up, or spending time with family and friends, then its not okay

[jab788]

I'm trying every day to let common sense overcome all the knowledge I've picked up over the years. How contagious the virus is.. how hard it is to kill.. etc. But I ask myself all the time, if all of these things are so true, why have I only had 3 or 4 illnesses in 26 years? Why aren't we all coming down with it 4+ times per year? How come I haven't had it in 14 years? I have not always been so careful. My mom, dad and sis still aren't very careful (my mom licks her fingers while sifting through dollar bills at work... yuck!!!!) and none of them have been sick in 10+ years either. My dad hasn't been sick since he was 20, and he's 55 now. Neither of my parents ever caught an illness from me or my sister when we were kids.

There are clearly some pieces of the puzzle that we don't understand yet. Innate immunity and asymptomatic infections should be studied further. It may help us figure out how to beat noro or at the very least lessen the symptoms. I'm not even saying that as an emet, just a person who would wants less people to have to deal with this illness.

My problem is I can tell myself these things all day. They make perfect sense and are totally logical, but the irrational fear always wins in the end. I have to get rid of the fear.

[chris_alice]

Well said, JAB!

I also wonder if now that we know too much, if worrying about it ALL THE TIME doesn't become a self-fulling prophesy. Like, we're attracting to us what we put all our energy on. So maybe that's why I FEEL so sick all the time even though I'm not ACTUALLY sick.

[Asgardia]

I agree with both of you ^.

Funny thing is... after I joined this forum last week or so things changed a little with my phobia. I feel better because of the extra knowledge I have gained, but I am also MORE paranoid... (a little) after joining, lol. Maybe it's just because this forum reminds me about all of it, yet it is also a comforting place so I don't want to not post, lol. If that makes any sense.

[jab788]

I know what you mean. For me when someone talks about all the people they've heard about who have it, and it can make me feel really really paranoid. I probably wouldn't hear about it so much if I didn't come here lol but it is helpful in many ways too. The people here are very supportive.

[emet-ana]

I was sick a lot as a kid. I remember wondering how anyone could ever get perfect attendance. Even after MS, I have not been as sick as I was as a kid. My mother believed in that stupid exposure stuff - the more you things you get, the stronger your immune system. I'm sad to see this idea coming back.

I agree with this! until I realized how noro was spread I caught it more often. I think I might be one of the genetically unlucky ones who's susceptible because I've had it more than average x

[Grace47]

When I moved out 27 years ago, I went from having it about three times a year and colds/flu almost constantly to about 3 bouts of noro in 27 years and much less cold/flu and only one bout of pnemonia.