Weird question: where does noro start?

[jbsmom]

Ok, so I know this is a weird question and more than likely no one has an answer to it. But where does it begin! Noro I mean? It has to happen to someone first. Who is the first person? Who is first and how did they get it if they were first? We can all say.... It came from uncle bill.....well where did uncle bill pick it up?

[mdgirl1977]

I think it is a fecal oral transmission, so someone is a carrier and doesn't wash hands after going poo, they touch a door or make food...someone either eats that food or they touch the door and put hands in mouth and then it starts...

[KimberlyP]

If you're asking about the origins of it and 'patient zero', this is from Wikipedia

The norovirus was originally named the "Norwalk agent" after Norwalk, Ohio, in the United States, where an outbreak of acute gastroenteritis occurred among children at Bronson Elementary School in November 1968. In 1972, electron microscopy on stored human stool samples identified a virus, which was given the name "Norwalk virus". Numerous outbreaks with similar symptoms have been reported since. The cloning and sequencing of the Norwalk virus genome showed that these viruses have a genomic organization consistent with viruses belonging to the family Caliciviridae.[61] The name was shortened to "norovirus" after being identified in a number of outbreaks on cruise ships and receiving attention throughout the United States. The name "norovirus" (Norovirus for the genus) was approved by the International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses (ICTV) in 2002.[62] In 2011, however, a press release and a newsletter[63] were published by ICTV, which strongly encourage the media, national health authorities and the scientific community to use the virus name Norwalk virus, rather than the genus name Norovirus, when referring to outbreaks of the disease. This was also a public response by ICTV to the request from an individual in Japan to rename the Norovirus genus because of the possibility of negative associations for people in Japan and elsewhere who have the family name "Noro". Before this position of ICTV was made public, ICTV consulted widely with members of the Caliciviridae Study Group and carefully discussed the case.
In addition to "Norwalk agent" and "Norwalk virus", the virus previously has been called "Norwalk-like virus", "small, round-structured viruses" (SRSVs), and "Snow Mountain virus".[64] Common names of the illness caused by noroviruses still in use include "winter vomiting disease",[65] "winter vomiting bug",[66][67] "viral gastroenteritis", and "acute nonbacterial gastroenteritis".[2] It also colloquially is known as "stomach flu", but this actually is a broad name that refers to gastric inflammation caused by a range of viruses and bacteria.

[Syrup]

I think most people catch it from a kid who was sick. 99% of the people I know caught it from a sick child. It's RARE that I meet someone who has no clue where it came from. It's always 'my niece was sick' or 'I was holding my friend's baby and thought he was better'. That's my experience at least! I never catch it (thankfully) but my kids have brought it home from school. My hubby has caught it from them. Oh wait! Once we went to a consignment sale and I let my kids play with the toys. They were both playing with a train table and got sick a few days later at the same time. So, that time it was a random event, but again, they had been playing with an item that I am sure a sick child had handled. I think it's the same in offices. Someone with a sick kid at home feels the need to share, etc. Can you tell I find kids (even my own) to be gross germ carriers?

[Dairyfreelife]

what kimp posted...basically a mutated virus. That's the origin.

[AoD]

You mean the very first person in the history of the world who caught it? We don't know. It's a virus that, at some point, mutated and one unlucky person ingested that first virus, or it mutated while in that person's digestive tract. Since then, it has been successful enough in its virulence to continue infecting people, and enough of the virus hasn't mutated into being non-infectious so that it still causes noticeable outbreaks. It happens very frequently, viruses mutate, and some strains die out while new ones take over. It's the reason why there are different strains of the flu, they keep mutating. Sometimes they mutate into harmless viruses, sometimes they mutate into more brutal ones.

[MaybeBaby]

So before 1968 there were stomach viruses, just not as brutal and or contagious?

[AoD]

I don't think it's 100% correct to say that before 1968 the stomach viruses weren't as brutal or contagious, maybe it's been around for much longer than that but it didn't get the chance to spread so easily because outbreaks were self-contained (people lived further apart, if there was an outbreak in a rural area it wouldn't infect many people outside the home), or people simply didn't make a big deal out of it when people caught "the winter vomiting bug" and the media didn't talk about it because it was normal.

[jkl81]

Keep in mind that before 1900 there was very little understanding of what a virus was. Even for more dangerous and better characterized viruses like the mosquito borne Yellow Fever Virus, there were a fair amount of people who clung to the idea that it was bacterial in origin until well into the 20th Century. I guess the reason probably was that no one could "see" a virus of any kind until we had good electron microscopy which came along later (not sure when exactly) as they are too small for most (if not all) light microscopes. Before electron microscopy, the only way to find a virus was to filter known infectious material to a size that no known bacteria would pass through and if the material was still infectious after that, then the causative agent must be a virus. I'm reading a lot about that in this book called "Lifting the Impenetrable Veil" about arthropod borne viruses, but the knowledge translates to noro and other viruses too of course. I guess it's true that we just don't know when and where it evolved, but RNA viruses like norovirus are always mutating. It could mutate to a form that is harmless, or doesn't cause GI illnesses or on the other hand too something far more severe than it is now. Any number of changes could happen. That's why we seem to see a new strain every few years or so.

[jbsmom]

All very interesting answers. I have read that excerpt about Norwalk Ohio in the past. I know that is where they discovered it and named it. I was thinking more along the lines of yearly outbreaks like the one we had here in japan this year where more than 90% of our military base was infected. I know that the virus is present year round and the reason we catch it more in the winter is because we are indoors with others. But someone got it first and started the outbreak. I guess I was wondering where that person picked it up. Is it just always present in the environment waiting to strike? If so then if the virus only lives a short time on surfaces how does it survive long enough to infect someone and where does it begin? I am thinking like mdgirl fecal oral route.

[AoD]

All very interesting answers. I have read that excerpt about Norwalk Ohio in the past. I know that is where they discovered it and named it. I was thinking more along the lines of yearly outbreaks like the one we had here in japan this year where more than 90% of our military base was infected. I know that the virus is present year round and the reason we catch it more in the winter is because we are indoors with others. But someone got it first and started the outbreak. I guess I was wondering where that person picked it up. Is it just always present in the environment waiting to strike? If so then if the virus only lives a short time on surfaces how does it survive long enough to infect someone and where does it begin? I am thinking like mdgirl fecal oral route.

The virus can survive days or weeks on a hard surface, possibly much longer on a soft surface like fabric. Cold doesn't kill it, only heat. So it does stay in the environment for quite a while. It would make sense that kids pick it up first as they play outside and put dirty hands/toys in their mouth all the time. Then they transmit it to the adults in their family. Also, even when there aren't full-blown outbreaks there are almost always a few people sick with it at any given time so if they aren't careful they can infect other people. Same thing with colds, the virus doesn't die out and still gets transmitted because there's always someone sick, even outside of outbreak season. Like I said earlier, our modern cramped living is to blame for how easily it transmits now. I mean, if someone gets sick in a crowded subway in New York for example, they'll potentially infect dozens of people. If someone gets sick in their car in a rural area, they most likely won't infect anyone or very few people they come in contact with afterwards.

[MaybeBaby]

I have only caught it once during the winter. I have had it in spring and summer several times.