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  1. #1
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    Hey all-


    Just thought I would post to let people know what tomorrow is. I work with prisoners and ex-prisoners, and tomorrow is a very important day for people who have ever been incarcerated, are currently incarcerated, have family in prison, or are concerned with human rights.


    On August 10th, 1974 Eddie Nalon, a prisoner at Millhaven Maximum Institution (in Ontario, Canada)fatally wounded himself while being held in segregation. The prison administration ignoredthe psychologist's recommendation that Eddie not be put in segregation, and then wasted valuable timewhenit was discovered he was injured.The following year, on the anniversary ofEddie's death, prisoners at Millhaven refused to work, went on a one-day hunger strike, and held a memorial service.


    What began as a one-time event to commemorate the loss of one individual has spread, and is nowrecognized internationally. While prisoners fast and refuse to work, community members and activists organize events to raise public awareness on the conditions inside prisons, youth prisons, psychiatric institutions, and immigration detention centers.


    This Thursday, August 10th marks the 31st anniversary of Prisoner's Justice Day. There are events going on in many areas of the world- a group I co-chair will be holding a candlelight vigil at a Human Rights monument, and will be reading written submissions from some of the men meet with who are in prison.


    So, when you are going about your day tomorrow, please take a moment to think of men, women, and CHILDREN who are being held in detention centres, prisons, and institutions, some of whose conditions contravene basic human rights.


    This isn't really an issue of politics, but of human rights and compassion. I don't want to start a huge debate, I just want to pass on what tomorrow is for those who may care.


    *amber*

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  2. #2
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    I was speaking about this with someone else who write to people on death row and have done in one of my letters to someone else I write with.

    This is a very important day.


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  3. #3
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    Do those prisoners think about the rights they took away from the innocentpeople they killed, rapped, robbed or whatever on this day too? Or is that a different day? Just wondering becauseI have never heard of this before. You would think I would have as much as my uncles have been in and out of jail. I am not being a smart a$$ or anything or trying to cause conflict. I was really just wondering!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy


    Do those prisoners think about the rights they took away from the innocentpeople they killed, rapped, robbed or whatever on this day too? Or is that a different day? Just wondering becauseI have never heard of this before. You would think I would have as much as my uncles have been in and out of jail. I am not being a smart a$$ or anything or trying to cause conflict. I was really just wondering!


    Good point TAFFY!


    Yeh, like do i get my sanity back after being violently raped twice?Does my son, who was only 9 years old at the time, get to erase the memory of witnessing one of these rapes? Does my hubby get his aunt back, the one who was mangled after being hit by one of these guys who chose to drink and drive? They willingly and knowingly messed up some people's lives forever, so why on earth am I gonna celebrate for them?I don't think so, no way.


    I don't wanna be attacked for this, butI was wondering, is there a VICTIM'S day too?? Well, there should be.


    OK--let me add this though---if someone was in prison for something awful, and there were circustances thaat led to the crime that were unconntrollable, and they normally wouldn't be in that situation, and have REFORMED thenselves, then that's a different story. Some people do rehab thenselves for the better. BUT for the people who planned and carried out a crime, then absolutely not!!!! Or, if they put themsellves in a position of being stupid, like drunk driving, then I have NO sympathy for them at all. Or child killers or animal killers. Edited by: californiagirl
    ~*~Charlene~*~

  5. #5
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    You know what, it's not even about what someone did that led to their imprisonment, it's about basic human rights. Prisoner's JusticeDay isn't about retribution or sentencing or thoughts relating to crime. It's about acknowledging unnatural deaths that occur in government custody, and that in some instances, human rights laws are being ignored.


    SOme people in prison have done some pretty deplorable things- but if the government turns a blind eye and allows deplorable things to happen to them while in custody, in the name of "justice", then that isn't right either. Two wrongs don't make a right- and an institution can't say that breaking the law is wrong, and then do it themselves. Or value human life in one respect, and not in another.


    This day isn't only about people held in prisons- it's about people in government institutions in general, including children. Prisoner's Justice Day has expanded to include awareness relating to psychiatric institutions, youth facilities, and detention centres. NOTE: People being held in detention centres have either not been charged, are awaiting sentencing, or are refugees/immigrants. Technically, they may not have been found guilty of ANYTHING, and may be held indefinitely, in some areas of the world even YEARS.


    I have gotten emails about different events that are occuring as far away as Australia...


    *amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

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  6. #6
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    I don't understand why people have such a hard time wrapping their minds around the fact that acknowledging and fighting against human rights violations and unnatural deaths in government institutions isn't an attack on victims, or meant to minimize what they have went through.


    If you don't like rape, murder, and suicideoutside of prison walls, you should also be against it occuring inside of the prison as well. Not wanting people to be treated inhumanely in government institutions (note- not just prisons)doesn't negate the fact that there are victims of crimes, or minimizes anything they have to go through. If anything, its for the prevention of further victimization.


    *amber*



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  7. #7
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    That's so wrong !
    Live Each Day as if It\'s Your Last
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    As far as I am concerned you commit a sensless act, you give up your every right. Your right it is a human right to have a meal everyday, be provided the basic necessities to stay alive and finish out your time like your deserve. But it ends there. You want to do something to harm yourself? Why should it be a basic human right to help you, what about those of us who do not have health insurance and can not afford to see a doctor for our mental health? Shouldn't that be a human right for all of us, not just for the rapers, murders? And since when did it become a human right to have a tv? I just think we give these peopoe too many rights when they only need the basics to rot in a cell.....

  9. #9
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    And another thing?If you don't like people reactions to your posts, then maybe you posting such conserversal topics shouldn't happen anymore, I just notice a pattern. Sorry if I'm being a bitch....

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    Well said Michelle, I couldn't agree with you more. It seems every "hot" topic that divides this support group is started by Amber. Amber, keep these topics off this website please, they don't help us, they only make it harder for people to get support for a common phobia. People's feelings get hurt and that is not the intention of this forum. John didn't start this site to have debates on civil rights. Your beliefs are important to you, and everyone else is entitled to an opinion, please stop the endless debates. Edited by: babygap5
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  11. #11
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    I don't know how I feel about prisoner's rights. But I am confused about one thing...

    We see these men, women and yes... children who are in prison as a threat to our society because of the heinous crimes they have committed. Yes, if it were me or my family member I would have a hard time not wanting to seek revenge. Then again, what does that solve? Will I feel better? Momentarily I guess I would, yes. I always have respect for those who are able to see that two wrongs don't make a right. Am I one of these people? I don't think I am. I am not a very forgiving person and I harbor a lot of messy feelings when people wrong me or mine. I get sick when I watch the news or pick up a paper and see what our society is turning into. HOWEVER, why is there not more attention being paid to where this behavior starts? Sometimes these people are psychologically f***ed, but how many psychological factors are a result of abuse or neglect? What did this person's family or society do to make these people feel that what they were doing was okay? Someone has to feel pretty disconnected, lost and angry to act out in the manner that these criminals do. Why are we not working harder to prevent these kinds of crimes?

    Not to mention, why is it that when a person on the street commits a crime against someone it's terrible, but when a soldier at war does, it's commendable? Because I have seen some f***ed up s*** those men and women are doing over there in this war and they get to come home heros. It's all f***ed up. But it's all just a product of how our society is. Until we put into motion some kind of major movement in our society, it will just continue to be a mess. I know that there is not much right that we are doing in this world right now. If there is a God, s/he is pissed at all of us.

    \"This too shall pass\"

  12. #12
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    Just because you don't agree with Amber gives you no right to tell her to keep this topic away from the boards. What annoys me most? Censorship. She is obviously passionate about this topic, it's her life's work. If you don't like it, don't respond. And I don't think it's a matter of her not liking anyone's reaction. I am assuming she knows what most of the reactions will be here. But just like any other kind of movement in the world, in order to make a difference- a person must be able to stick their necks out for what they believe in and try to educate others on the subject they are passionate about. There is nothing wrong with opening our minds up to other ways of thinking. You never know what you might learn about yourself if you look inside of your mind without a judgemental eye.

    I don't understand why people get so offended so easily. No one is being forced to read, respond or to think a certain way.

    Geez.. I love all of ya, but you've got to lighten up.

    \"This too shall pass\"

  13. #13
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    Well said Shiva, Amber presented you with some information about something close to her. She never told any of you that you had to agree or disagree with the princible and if you don't like it you don't have to read it.

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    No but she ALWAYS presents information that is very political....Some people feel very strongly about political beliefs. Amber is one of them, which I have no problem with, but don't stir the pot. You know what is going to happen with a post like this, it has happened so many times before. Go join a politcal board and debate with them.

  15. #15
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    Funny- how you can't even post a message of "FYI- this is what tomorrow is if you're interested". I'm sure no one would have any problems about me posting events/history about, say, International Woman's Day, which also has an important human rights aspect. Or International Children's Day. Or a religious holiday, even if you don't observe that particular religion. So, if I posted something about a walk for Aids research, would you turn that into a rant about how people with Aids deserve it if they had unsafe sex?


    I really don't care if people disagree with my views- doesn't bother me in the least, people should know that by now. However, I didn't post this to start any massive debate relating to views on prison or prisoners- if you want to debate this further, feel free to PM me, I don't mind at all. I posted this to let people know what today is, and that events are going on worldwide. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the fact that today is PJD. You disagreeing with the sentiment behind today doesn't negate it's existance- even my newspaper from middle-of-nowhere Northern Ontario had an article about it. Interestingly, I posted this on a lot of the other boards I visit, and so far the predominant response has been "well, I don't necessarily agree with it, but good luck on your event".


    If YOU want to turn this into a crap-shoot, then that is your prerogative. I really have no way to control how you respond to a post. I can only control my original sentiment behind posting it, which was purely informative- an "FYI if you care".


    Shiva- you analysis is interesting, and I do agree that better preventative measures need to be in place to help someone before they commit a crime. Just wanted to mention that in terms of children being incarcerated, a large percentage of incarcerated children worldwide haven't actually comitted any crimes. They may be imprisoned because their parents have been charged with something and there are no other relatives who will take the child, or are being held in a detention camp for immigrants/refugees. In some countries, they can be held until they have reached adulthood- so they have essentially grown up in prison.


    *sigh*


    *amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

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  16. #16
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    This site was set up to help people with one thing, EMETOPHOBIA. Yes, we've all gotten to know each other very well, and sometimes we ask for advice in situations that have nothing to do with emet, that's one thing. However, these topics that deal with personal views, opinions, beliefs always start a massive debate where people may feel they are being attacked because of their opinion. John has spoken about this on several occasions as well. Yes, we don't have to read it if we think we are going to get enraged by another's opinion, that's not the point. He's explained before that these topics belong on a political board, NOT on this one. So please Amber, stop posting items that can cause a massive debate that just goes around and around. If there is something you want to get an opinion on, go to one of the other forums you belong to, where the subject matter is more appropriate.
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  17. #17
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    I don't think John would have had a problem if people wouldn't have been complaining. He's just keeping the peace because some people can't handle other people thinking differently than they do. It's sad.
    \"This too shall pass\"

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    Shiva, completely agree.



    Amber, I will be thinking of those men, women and children incarcerated all over the world.



    I do a lot of work for Amnesty International, and there are far less
    people giving voice to prisoner human rights in general. To do so,
    certainly does not minimise victim rights.



    Prisoners are forgotten people, and I am one of those who believe that
    human rights are universal - nobody gives up their rights through their
    actions. That would make society no better than those who commit
    actions we all so rightly condemn. Society creates crime; it
    creates the sexual objectification of women, it creates a culture of
    violence, it creates abuse, it creates corruption. It is the
    responsibility of every willing individual to stand up to these abuses
    and work for a better society overall. I believe that involves
    confronting issues, truths and necessities that we may not be that
    comfortable with.



    For what it's worth, I don't believe Amber was being antagonistic or
    particularly controversial in posting what she did. You can take
    from it what you wish. Okay, so you may not want to think of all
    the rapists, robbers and murderers. But you could think about
    those imprisoned for political reasons, or those imprisoned falsely, or
    those imprisoned under new laws which don't require guilt to be
    proven. There was no "you must feel sorry for every convict in
    the land"; that's not what the post was about.



    I don't think that discussing difficult issues and opening our minds to new concepts and ideas is a bad thing.



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  19. #19
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    I am not even going to get into this topic. I have opinions on it, but when something on this site turns into a debate, I don't want to get too involved. I just wanted to say:


    I think that its fine if other people have different opinions, but some people here seem to not be able to accept a different opinion than theirs, and fault people who think differently. These fightsmight be avoided if people said their piece and then dropped it, instead of taking offense at every little thing that is said.


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  20. #20
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    you all cant just see what it is for what it is, everyone has to argue about something on here, this again has turned into an argument not a discussion, people throwing there points around, the day is what it is and thats that.

    hey are paying for there crimes, you look around at what some of these prisoners hav to live in and have had done to them, then you may change your mind on some aspects of this "argument"

    here read this &gt;&gt; http://www.steveatbangkwang.bravehos...normalday.html

    Or this &gt;&gt; http://www.steveatbangkwang.bravehos...hsentence.html

    Or how about reading about this guy, press on the yellow button on the left hand side then go to the bottom, the dates between the 15th of may and the 19th, read about this guys last days on death row &gt;&gt; http://www.deathrow.at/rmc/index0.html

    We all understand that these people have done wrong and THAT is why they are in there, but realise that some of the inhumane conditions that they are living in, you WOULD NOT even keep a dog like this.

    Please see it for what it is, I dont and wont ever condone what any prisoner has done, but on the other hand I still dont agree with the conditions that some of them are kept in.

    I am not going to keep this going as an argument im just making a point, so fight with me if you wish Im not going to listen.

    Im sick fed up of people throwing themselfs and there oppinions around here about things when they havent put thought into it, read those above and really see what some people are living with just for there crime.


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  21. #21
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    Then you shouldn't be committing any crimes, and you wouldn't have to worry about living in bad conditions!
    Kate
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    The point is that people shouldn't be treated the way they are in prisons EVER. Although I do think that if you do something wrong you should be incarcirated you don't deserve to be treated like crap. No one should take away your rights as a human being and I think that most of you, like Violet said, haven't really taken the time to realize what's going on and why prisoners need to be treared decently.


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  23. #23
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    Kate, Alot of people who are in prison have been wrongly commited, and a precentage of people on death row are in the same boat, dont think that just because they are in there they did it.

    they are there to serve there time, they are there to pay the price, but I wouldnt keep anyone in half the conditions they are in.


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  24. #24
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    If we aren't allowed to post about things that interest us,then there shouldn't be an off topic board.People are always going to have different opinions on things whether it's a serious matter or not.


    Amber, whether or not I agree or disagree with the things that you post, I find them all very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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  25. #25
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    It sure is funny that when someone's opinion is diff than the original poster, you get bashed and slammed for feeling differently. That is the very reason i don't usually respond to these types of posts....you all want everyone to respect your opinion and then, the minute someone is opposed to it, you get attacked by everyone...so therefore, i will not post on this again.
    Kate
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    My feelings exactly Kate.
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    Well, that's exactly the point. No one had to respond. If we did a Merry Christmas post, would a person who doesn't celebrate Christmas jump in on it and criticize the people who were in celbration of their holiday? No, they would simply click out of it and move on to the next interesting thing to read.

    It was not started as a debate, it was turned into one. Amber was only stating that something that is important to her, that she is working hard to promote is about to happen and if you happen to have her views, you might want to participate.

    I think I do a pretty good job at looking at things from different perspectives and I also think that I am a fair judge of intention and a great judge of character. To me this seems like either 1) someone was having a bad day and took it out on this post or 2) someone took it personally (which could be understandable) or 3) someone had negative feelings about Amber previous to this post and is using it as a way to attack her beliefs and make her and her opinion feel unwelcome.

    If it's #3, then maybe you should take it up with her privately. ???

    \"This too shall pass\"

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    Shiva you're saying everything I think in a much more articulate way, well said!

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    ...and if it is #3, please do take it up with me personally. I have no problem hashing it out over PM's or MSN. I notice that it is often the same people who tend to accuse me of something, or claim that I have ulterior motives of some sort. I don't really have beef with anyone- if you have beef with me, message me about it.


    Shiva- you exactly captured what I meant. Prisoner's Justice Day exists regardless of what people think about it- people saying that it is wrong/bad/should not be won't change the fact that it is. I just thought I would give a heads up as to what is going on, in case people were unaware and felt any sort of empathy towards this cause. If so, they could perhaps keep it in their thoughts for the day, or attend an event in their region.


    The only reason I responded about the value of this day is because Taffy asked for some clarification about something she was wondering about vis a vis victims. Otherwise, if people don't agree with it, that is of course within their right. It just doesn't negate the fact that, that is what today is, and there may be people who want to know of this. Kinda like how you can not agree with Christmas, but it doesn't mean that you not agreeing with it makes it nonexistant. If it was a holiday based on religion, would people be less likely to object me posting about it, even though that is also a topic that people often disagree about?


    *amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

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  30. #30
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    Kate, If that was aimed at you, I wasnt attacking you, I was making a statement about the injustice of the prison service.

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