Question for Sage/Alvin/anyone

**babygap5** · 10-04-2006, 03:36 PM

I re-read the answers Alvin provided for us regarding everything we all needed to know about a sv* and I have another question, that I couldn't figure out the answer to.

Yesterday, another co-worker of mine got sick shortly after lunch. She at first blamed it on the food she had eaten, as did the rest of the office who ate from this particular restaurant. She went home early because she didn't want to v* anymore at work (who could blame her).

So, this morning, she's back in, so everyone welcomed her back and asked her how she was feeling. She said that she left work at 3, was home by 3:30 and in bed by 3:35. She slept for several hours, had no dinner because she was n* and then went to sleep. She woke up feeling much better, eyes a little glassy, and very hungry. So, I asked her if we were going to take that restaurant off our our list of places to order from and she said probably, but she didn't think it was the food. Her husband told her when she got home that he had the same thing on Sunday night. Apparantly, yesterday, shortly after lunch, she got very hot and that's when the v* started. Her husband is a cop and works nights. The last time she saw him was Sunday afternoon, he ended up working a double shift so she hadn't seen him again until yesterday afternoon when she got home. He never mentioned to her that he had gotten sick because it was so fast moving he thought it had to do with something he ate also.

Here's my question. Alvin repeatedly stated that in order to catch a sv*, one would have to ingest the particals of v* or fecal matter. Since her husband was perfectly fine on Sunday afternoon, how did she manage to catch it from him if she didn't come in contact with him at all until yesterday? Does this mean he was contagious BEFORE the symptoms started? I also thought that it was possible that they were both exposed together and it just hit him sooner than her, which is a possibility, but when I spoke with her again, she said that she had only seen him on Sunday afternoon, not any days before that because of his hectic schedule. In fact, the last time the 2 were together running errands was on Thursday afternoon/evening, before he left for work, so, that was several days before he got sick, and several more days since she had gotten sick. So basically, they weren't together anywhere except on Sunday afternoon, which they spent at home playing with their twins.

So my question for Sage/Alvin is how is this possible? Alvin calmed alot of nerves on this board by telling everyone the only way to catch it was to ingest the virus itself. This is an example where that wasn't so. I'm not trying to start trouble, and I'M NOT A DOCTOR, but I was just curious as to how this was possible. How is it possible for a virus to spread like this (and she is pretty sure it was that because she was slightly feverish when she got home) if the only contact they had with each other was about 8 hours prior to her husband v*. Could it be, was he contagious before the symptoms started? Like a cold?

I also want to restate that I'm not asking this question because I'm panicking that I may have been exposed to a sv, I'm just asking out of curiosity. I'm in control and the emet isn't.

JudyEdited by: babygap5

**babygap5** · 10-04-2006, 05:21 PM

Just posting - to keep it current.

**vicki5011** · 10-04-2006, 07:09 PM

I had a similar situation many many years ago, i had been depressed and locked myself away for 2 weeks and had not seen anybody untill the night my friend came round for a couple of hours, she was feeling totally fine! we kissed each other on cheek when we said our good byes and that was that UNTIL the next day she rang saying she had d* and v* all night,, well i thought i would be ok as she wasnt ill at the time when i saw her but 2 days later i came down with the same thing too, i never did quite understand how i caught it unless she was contagious before the symptoms.. i thought maybe i put my hands on my face where she had kissed me and later when i ate a bag of crisps was when i ingested it??? i just dont know!

**babygap5** · 10-04-2006, 07:12 PM

That only proves that you are contagious prior to showing symptoms, just like any other virus. Cold's are spread that way. You are contagious for up to 2 weeks prior to the symptoms starting and you are contagious throughout. And it's not like they got sick from the twins, they are babies about 9 months old and they are watched by her and her husband, no one else so they didn't pick it up from them.

**vicki5011** · 10-04-2006, 07:29 PM

The only other thing i can think of is maybe she had part of the virus on her face off somebody else when i kissed her cheek??? sounds a bit way off but it depends on how well she washes her face i guess!! it just seems hard to believe though, i did read some where that people are there most contagoius just before the onset of symptoms but weather its true or not i dont know??

**californiagirl** · 10-05-2006, 12:29 AM

I'd like to add that I also heard that, like colds, people could be contagious for a couple of days before symptoms appear. I have never heard (before this site) that they are only contagious once symptoms appear, because if that is the case, why would 2 or 3 people in one household be symptomatic within hours of each other? I also think this is how the epidemics spread--because of the pre-symptom exposure. I thought I'd be attacked if I brought htis up, but since I'm not the only one who wonders this, I decided to reply[img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img].

**Girlygirl1980s** · 10-05-2006, 01:23 AM

Wow, that is really scary! I have been feeling so much better believing I would only catch it after someone was sick, and they didn't wash well. I wish Alvin could explain this, or somebody.

**Galadriel** · 10-05-2006, 04:03 AM

To be honest I wondered the same thing, and thought about posting it, but didnt want to stir anything up. Thank you for bringing this up! I too have had situacions where I've caught an SV, and wondered how on earth I did, because I wasn't around the person while they were sick. For instance when I got one a couple 3-4 years ago, I was visiting my dad's fiances house for just a few hours, then left and went home, about 2-3 days later I was pretty sick with an sv, and knew I got it there because exactly 24 hours later her daughter (dad's fiances daughter) came down with the exact same thing I had, so I know I got it there, but no one was sick there while I was over there several days prior to me getting it. It has to be that its contagious before symptoms start, because I cant explain it otherwise.

**gumdropper1** · 10-05-2006, 05:15 AM

The husband and wife could have caught if from the same source.

**mee55** · 10-05-2006, 06:00 AM

I wonder the same because I have had two sv* this year. one I cleaned up a patients v* so I know how I got that one but the 2nd one another nurse said that he had been v* at home but not a work and I got it. I don't know how that happened. I didn't come in contact with any v* or d*

**babygap5** · 10-05-2006, 01:03 PM

I understand that my friend and her husband could have caught it from the same source, but they weren't together except for 4 days prior to her husband getting ill, then she didn't see him at all until 2 days later when she was ill. It just seems that people ARE contagious prior to symptoms showing and that simply going on the assumption that unless you have direct contact with it somehow is the only way you are going to get it is simply not true.

I called my gastroenterologist yesterday afternoon and spoke with him. He explained that Alvin was correct in stating that the virus needs a warm place to reproduce so you aren't going to catch it from a doorknob, etc, BUT, a person IS contagious before symptoms appear. Some people show symptoms sooner than others depending on their immune system, so her husband was exposed to it and passed it to her on Sunday. It simmered in her for 2 days before her symptoms started.

Please, before the yelling begins, I want to thank Alvin for taking the time to answer all of our questions in that large post, however, he isn't a doctor, and it's obvious to me that all virus's aren't alike, and althoughhaving direct contact with the particals is needed for transmission, so is a kiss prior to the symptoms starting.

I hope I haven't upset anyone, and Sage, please do not take offense to anything thatI have written. I'm notdisregarding Alvin's degree in microbiology, and I'm nottrying toundermine hisknowledge in this area, but, it was just something that I had been wonderingabout for awhile and this latest virus with my friend made me post my question. The bottom line is, even though it isn't spread via airborne transmission, it is present in saliva prior to the symptoms starting.

Judy

**kate1966** · 10-05-2006, 02:18 PM

Yeah, it makes good sense to me that you don't have to be present when the person actually v's to catch a sv....i have always thought that anyway too.....i'm no doctor, but i think the theory of it speaks for itself!!

**marieb73** · 10-05-2006, 02:34 PM

Well, the CDC says this:

How is norovirus spread?

Noroviruses are found in the stool or vomit of infected people. People can become infected with the virus in several ways, including:
<UL>
<LI>eating food or drinking liquids that are contaminated with norovirus;
<LI>touching surfaces or objects contaminated with norovirus, and then placing their hand in their mouth;
<LI>having direct contact with another person who is infected and showing symptoms (for example, when caring for someone with illness, or sharing foods or eating utensils with someone who is ill). </LI>[/list]

Link: http://0-www.cdc.gov.mill1.sjlibrary.org/ncidod/dvrd/revb/ga stro/norovirus-foodhandlers.htm#how

Now, I believe the CDC and Alvin, but I gotta admit that I too have ended up with a sv seemingly out of the blue.

My experience was similar to Vicki's in that I had no contact with anyone for about a week, had a friend over, she got sick the later that day of our visit, then I got it a day or so later. And all I did was hug her!!!!!Edited by: marieb73

**mars** · 10-05-2006, 02:35 PM

This is what I thought.

A couple of years back I caught an sv* from a friend. She had a Christening party for her daughter and had prepared all of the food herself. There were around 20 of us there. During the party everyone was fine, her and her husband had no symptoms of being ill. However, about an hour after everyone had gone home her husband started v*, then a couple of hours later she started being ill and also had d*. Around 2-3 dayslater most of us who had been at the party got sick.I was at a funeral when I started feeling ill and left, and luckily I only had d*, but it turns out I passed it on to some of the people at funeral, who got sickthe next day- how bad did I feel???

So she must have had been contagious withthe virus while she was preparing the food and we ate the food and got ill.

We are not medical experts, and I don't want to scaremonger, and as Sage and Alvin have both said good hygeine goes a long way in the battle against sv*s. Mx

**babygap5** · 10-05-2006, 02:40 PM

Marieb - that is true for the norovirus, but like I said, there are many types of virus's and to simply make the generalized statement that the ONLY way to get a sv is by ingesting the particals is false.

**marieb73** · 10-05-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by babygap5

Marieb - that is true for the norovirus, but like I said, there are many types of virus's and to simply make the generalized statement that the ONLY way to get a sv is by ingesting the particals is false.

I'm terrified of the possiblity that it could be airborne.

**babygap5** · 10-05-2006, 02:54 PM

I'm not sure if it's airborne, I think if it was, there would be more of it around. The only point I was trying to alert everyone to is that a person IS contagious prior to the symptoms starting. Several people here have experienced it, as have I when I was a child. It's a false sense of security to only listen to Alvin and his educational experience and to disregard personal experience. I'm again, not debating the value of his education or his mastery in this field, but, he isn't a doctor or a scientist.

I know that I was curious about this topic for awhile, but was very afraid to post it for fear of being attacked based on my question/opinion. I think the best method of prevention of getting any virus, from a cold or a sv is just to keep washing your hands, and keeping them away from your face.

**marieb73** · 10-05-2006, 03:01 PM

I agree with you babygap. [img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]Handwashing is always good as I have discoveredbecause non-emets are so unafraid of a bug (one of my co-workers once told me, "It's only a sickness and you do survive it") many may not mention that they have been ill recently.

**Galadriel** · 10-05-2006, 04:41 PM

Yeah I would say handwashing would help a lot, and trying not to put your hands near your face till you've washed your hands. I agree babygap in that it would be a false sense of security, but mostly I just wondered about some of my personal experiences and how they could have happened. The idea that it could potentially be caught (before symptoms start in the infected person) explains some of the situacions I was in, and also others situacions as well.

**vicki5011** · 10-05-2006, 07:08 PM

IN REGARDS TO WHAT MARS HAS SAID I THINK THE FACT THAT THE PERSON PREPARING THE FOOD FOR THE CHRISTENING AND HER PARTNER MUST HAVE CAUGHT THE SV AT THE SAME TIME FROM THE SAME SOURCE.. AND THE FACT THAT SOME OF THE GUESTS FROM THE CHRISTENING CAME DOWN WITH WITH THE SV JUST SHOWS THAT THE PERSON PREPARING THE FOOD HADNT BEEN THAT VIGOROUS IN HER HAND WASHING AFTER THE TOILET BECAUSE SHE IS CONTAGOUS BUT ONLY IN HER STOOL/FAECES, AND THEN IN HER V* WHEN THAT HAPPENS??? SO I THINK IN THAT INSTANCE IT WAS EXACTLY AS ALVIN SAYS BUT, NOT IN ALL[img]smileys/smilies_05.gif[/img]

**Girlygirl1980s** · 10-05-2006, 10:40 PM

Babygap,

Since your doctor said people are contagious before they show symptoms, do you know if it is still passed the same way (through fecal matter)? This terrifies me when I think about eating out or having other people ever prepare food for me. I always assumed if they felt sick, they wouldn't want to cook, and there would be nothing to worry about.

**californiagirl** · 10-05-2006, 10:48 PM

BABYGAP~~~~~

I 100% agree with you, and don't wanna be yelled at either.

I wanna say this though---people on here have been "discouraged" to tell people that they'll "be OK", and to be careful when giving medical advice, as we aren't doctors and could misrepresently give someone false hope or cause more worry than needed.

So, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, Alvin is not a doctor and shouldn't state something that may not be 100% true, because the information gave alot of us a false sense of security. Now we know, from experience, that people are contagious before symptoms appear, which is one reason why sv's run so rampant I think. People unknowingly pass it on to other people. Now, Alvin DID state alot of reliable facts and is a very intelligent person, but as we are all told not to "mis-inform" people, the same should go for everyone here. We depend on this info given, and need it to be 100% accurate. Please don't put me down for this. People don't hesitate to tell me when I'm WRONG, so I just wanted to state this as fairly as I could, and the evidence backing me up speaks for itself here.Edited by: californiagirl

**vicki5011** · 10-05-2006, 11:16 PM

HI!!IVE BEEN ASKING AROUND AS I HAVE A FRIEND OF A FRIEND WHO IS A MEDICAL EXPERT AND BASICALLY YOU ARE CONTAGIOUS ONE DAY BEFORE YOU BECOME SYMPTOMATIC, BUT OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE THEY HAVNT ALREADY V* IT CAN ONLY BE IN THEIR STOOL, SO ITS BACK TO THE HYGEINE THING AGAIN.. SO WHEN I CAUGHT THAT SV OF MY FRIEND YEARS AGO EVEN THOUGH I ONLY KISSED HER ON THE CHEEK SHE OBVIOUSLY HADNT WASHED HER HANDS THAT GREAT AND TOUCHED HER FACE AT SOME POINT IN THAT DAY AND WHEN I KISSED HER I GOT SOME OF THE SV!!! MAKES SENSE.. IT JUST PUTS ME OFF KISSING OR BEING TOO CLOSE TO ANYONE BECAUSE I DONT KNOW A SINGLE PERSON THAT WASHES THERE HANDS IN HOT WATER FOR 60 SECONDS.. IN FACT THEY DONT EVEN USE HOT WATER SO THEY ARE ACTUALLY MAKINGCONTAMINATION WORSE. SO WHEN THEY HAVE PREPARED FOOD, UNLESS THEY KNOW HW TO WASH PROPERLY WE DONT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST THE DREADED SV [img]smileys/smilies_10.gif[/img]

**mee55** · 10-06-2006, 12:48 AM

I am a nusre and I am confused!!!!Although we all know that it is passed fecal oral route if the person is asymptomatic a day before there should be no d* so how is it passed from the stool. I don't know!? there a many different types of viruses that can cause d* and V* so maybe they are all passed different ways.

**ladyvolfan** · 10-06-2006, 01:38 AM

I have also talked to my doctor who stated that people are in fact contagious before they even know they are sick. Even though they do not have d* or v* yet the germ is still present in their body. So that means that if someone who is contaminated with the bug and goes to the bathroom and doesnt wash well enough can contaminate you. There is no way really of knowing who is contagious if they have no symptoms. Good hygeine my doctor said is the best defense...

I too rested comfortably thinking that I had to actually had to only come in contct with the "germ juices" lol...to catch it...Both times when I was sick there was a a sv going around the daycare..I dodnt think anything of it...It was a nice dream..lol..sucks when you find out you can catch it from seemingly unsick people! I know I will be worrying a lil bit more now..Rebecca

**rubysoho120** · 10-06-2006, 02:58 AM

That is really scary, and totally confuses me...so it is transmitted from the fecal/oral route no matter if it before they are having symptoms or not. Which means that an infected person didn't wash the poop off their hands good and touch something and we not so hygeniclly put it in our mouth, via hands, eyes, nose picking, or even eating food or kissing the other persons "dirty" clothing or hands. But I don't think that means it is transmitted through saliva...which means kissing and food sharing is okay? unelss they touch the food with dirty hands...this is getting scary and confusing. What about the toliet spray when you flush the toliet can the germs fly at your from there into your mouth or on your clothes and you touch them and getting in your body???

**rubysoho120** · 10-06-2006, 02:59 AM

I realy want to know what Alvin and Sage are going to say...because Im freaked right now...

**rubysoho120** · 10-06-2006, 03:01 AM

Judy...is there a chance your friend and her husband ate anything while they were together? and they could have fp from what they ate...because that can take days to show up if its a virus or a bacteria that they ate...its only 12 hours or before if its a food toxin....???

**taracordero** · 10-06-2006, 03:18 AM

See, I brought this very thing up a few weeks ago and provided some websites that contradicted what Alvin said and I got rebuffed, lol. I am pretty sure the viruses can be spread before the actual v* and d* start, just want to add my two cents. Babygap, thanks for bringing this up again. When I posted, I also had the intention of not giving false security to people on here.

**californiagirl** · 10-06-2006, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by taracordero

See, I brought this very thing up a few weeks ago and provided some websites that contradicted what Alvin said and I got rebuffed, lol. I am pretty sure the viruses can be spread before the actual v* and d* start, just want to add my two cents. Babygap, thanks for bringing this up again. When I posted, I also had the intention of not giving false security to people on here.

I just read your post--I know how you feel, and you did get somewhat attacked for it

It's true though, because I have ALWAYS read that people are contagious a couple of days before symptoms show up.

Thank you though, for posting what you posted, trying to educate us on sv's.[img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]

New Chat System Available for Members!

Thread: Question for Sage/Alvin/anyone

Thread Tools

Display

Posting Permissions