Virginia Beach School Closing

[californiagirl]

AGH!!!!!! I just read this article (it was emailed to me)! Now I'm a little more scared than usual. I am not posting this to scare anyone, but just to give you a heads up. I highlighted the pertinent parts in red that may be useful info. >> 12 DAYS?!?!?!!!!<<


Officials say norovirus caused illnesses at Beach school


By LAUREN ROTH, The Virginian-Pilot
© October 12, 2006 | Last updated 10:31 PM Oct. 11




VIRGINIA BEACH - Health officials on Wednesday identified the culprit that sickened about 190 students and staff at College Park Elementary School last week as a norovirus.


Officials did not, however, pinpoint a single source of the virus.


The highly contagious virus causes vomiting and diarrhea, usually for one to two days. It is commonly associated with cruise ships because close living quarters help the virus spread, but most cases occur on land.


The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that noroviruses are responsible for 23 million cases of acute gastroenteritis - commonly known as the stomach flu - each year, and at least half of all food-borne outbreaks of the illness are due to noroviruses.
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[kristin1980]

wow well that kind of blows alot of stuff out of the water that we thought was true or not true. It is true though that as time goes these days that germs and strains of viruses seem to mutate or change or become stronger or immune to things. its scary to think about it but i cant live in fear of it. This same thing happened at a school and a nursing home in a city about an hour away from hear and spread like crazy. It was scary but practicing good hygeine will always keep u one step ahead.


I hope no one else gets sick and it gets contained.. that is crazy i know it was like that for the whole month of June here in Washington the nursing home and thena middle school.

[kristin1980]

12 hrs is scary but .. that should include prolly not just your mouth but nose and eyes also?? i would think? hmm.. I am pretty aware of when i touch my face i rarel ever touch my mouth, i am always real conscience of if i have washed my hands or not if there is an itch or whatever near my eye or nose but i guess thats just the emet in me coming out again!

[marby]

Wow - the virus can live on a surface for 12 DAYS!? That's scary...

[jennyleigh1975]

12 days?!?! OMG that freaks me out!!!! Wow-something like what that school went through is a big fear of mine too, I would have to be on some Valium or Zanax to get through that!!

[rubysoho120]

First off you cannot believe everything an article wrote...come on
people. The person who wrote that is no a doctor. We all know that the
sv* cannot live on a surface that is not moist and warm, remember??? I
doubt it can live for 12 days without being moist and warm. Just like
we know that it is almost impossilbe to be "airboure" the only way
would be if you were right next to the person v* and you got the spray
on your clothes and face and then put it into your mouth, eyes, and
nose. We know these facts. Don't let the article scare you. Do none of
you believe Alvin any more? Remember oral fecal or v* oral. Do we not
wash our hands like crazy.

[crimgoddess]

Rubysoho- you stole the words right out of my mouth!


*amber*

[babygap5]

I don't think it's a question of not believing Alvin anymore, I think it's more of a realization, that science ISN'T exact and that the director of health got her info from a source and Alvin has got his information from another. Science is not exact and is everchanging. Just look at all the study's that are done that contradict each other. One minute the atkins diet is great and fully supported by doctors in the media, the next it's slammed by experts/doctors.


The bottom line is since the noro virus IS a virus, there are many different strains, etc. so there are going to be varying opinions, all are correct in some way, just not in every instance.

[kate1966]

Babygap....I do agree with you....it's all changing every day, and getting worse and worse each year, with the diff. strains of virus's....so no matter how we contract the virus...it's out there, and there's nothing we can do but keep out hands clean!!!

[marby]

Well said babygap. I'm sure the information in Alvin's research was derived from published articles as well. It'sa matter of which you prefer to put your faith into. Unfortunately I think we sometimes believetheopinion that helps calm the phobia/anxiety because it's what we want to believe.I have certainly been guilty of that.

[babygap5]

I agree with you Marby.

[crimgoddess]

Kate1966- It really does not get worse every year- media reports such as this just make it seem as though it's getting worse. Media reporting these things is a fairly new phenomena- the first time I had even remembered hearing about a 'norovirus outbreak' was in 2001; and apparently it has only been since the 90's that they actually tested for this and fullytracked outbreaks, so there is no real way to say that it is worse now than it was then.


According to the CDC, in the recent past there have been no one year that has been significantly worse than another. It may be worse in one area in one particular year, but in terms of the big picture, no big change. That, and the irrationality of this phobia makes you think that this year will be worse than last year- catastrophic thinking as Sage called it.


Marby, I actually disagree with you- It seems as though people are trying to derive more reasons to be scared and possibly take comfort in the anxiety. It seems as though people are working hard to find reasons to NOT believe the answer that will lead to the least amount of axiety, likely due to the thinking that "if I believe this and let my guard down, I will get sick".I get the impression that there is the pervasive though that atleast if you remain anxious and keep up with the rituals, it gives the sense of security that you can control every aspect ofyour environment, and won't get sick because you are so 'vigilant'.


*amber*

[kristin1980]

it could be true.. it could not be true.. who knows all i know is i wouldnt get too worked up about it..

[californiagirl]

I don't think it's a question of not believing Alvin anymore, I think it's more of a realization, that science ISN'T exact and that the director of health got her info from a source and Alvin has got his information from another. Science is not exact and is everchanging. Just look at all the study's that are done that contradict each other. One minute the atkins diet is great and fully supported by doctors in the media, the next it's slammed by experts/doctors.


The bottom line is since the noro virus IS a virus, there are many different strains, etc. so there are going to be varying opinions, all are correct in some way, just not in every instance.

Good point Judy--Just like Law (Judy, you're with me on this one)--it changes constantly and you really can't depend on any aspect of it beimng set in stone. There are sooooo many different viruses strains, and maybe there are different guidelinesfor each one? Who knows? All in all, our best defens is just to keep our hands clean, and unless we're hovering over a person who is actively v*, the chances of catching it airborne are probablt thin.


And I DO believe some years are worse than others. How can it be that every year is the same?? That sounds very inaccurate. There are different strains going around all the time, and certainly more than there was 10 or so years ago.


I just wanted to give you all a heads up on this, from a different perspective, I didn't write this, I just found it a little unnerving and wanted to let you know.


At this point, I don't take any reports or people's words for this to heart anymore. That goes for CDC reports, news reports, and even alvin. I will more believe proven facts that come specifically from a virologist, since they study "viruses". I mean no disrespect to anyone. It's just like law---I know alot about family and criminal law because I specialize in those fields, but know nothing about tax law, so in a comparative analogy, the CDC, doctors, and even Alvin may be very educated on the certain pathogens and diseases/illnesses, but a VIROLOGIST knows more about viruses, just as a tax attorney knows about tax law. I am rambling, but everyone gets so heated over this stuff. Agh, I'm done now.

[kate1966]

Whatever Amber...you are not always right about everything...and frankly i am sick of you coming on this site telling everyone they are wrong about everything....you aren't a doctor, and neither is anyone else on here...so why should anyone believe you over anyone else...why can't anyone have an opinion on here without you chiming in saying they are wrong. Are you that insecure that you have to prove everyone wrong everytime they speak? I mean, yeah, you have to good info, and everyone appreciates that, but you don't always have to come back on everyone's response to make them feel they are wrong. So, for all it's worth, everyone can listen to whoever they want, it doesn't matter who's right, or wrong, or whatever. We are never all going to agree on anything anyway.

[crimgoddess]

Whatever Amber...you are not always right about everything...and frankly i am sick of you coming on this site telling everyone they are wrong about everything....you aren't a doctor, and neither is anyone else on here...so why should anyone believe you over anyone else...why can't anyone have an opinion on here without you chiming in saying they are wrong. Are you that insecure that you have to prove everyone wrong everytime they speak? I mean, yeah, you have to good info, and everyone appreciates that, but you don't always have to come back on everyone's response to make them feel they are wrong. So, for all it's worth, everyone can listen to whoever they want, it doesn't matter who's right, or wrong, or whatever. We are never all going to agree on anything anyway.

Woah- Chill. There is no need to take anything personally when it isn't.


A) I never claimed to be a doctor. As far as I know there is only one person on this site who can make this claim.


B) I never said that anyone HAD to believe me. People can believe what they want and be as anxious as they want to be. No one here has the definitive word on anything, but when someone says something here and I either disagree with them, or it sounds like they are saying something out of fear/emotion rather than fact, I will disagree. Just as anyone can disagree with anything I have said. Such is free speech.


C) You are insinuating that I am insecure- can I not turn around and ask if you are so insecure that you can't handle someone disagreeing with YOU? You can believe what you want, or attack something that I said, but for pete's sake, keep it to something I have written, not ME. I don't understand why disagreement has to be a bad thing, or cause anyone to fly off the handle.


Oh well, what can you do. I really don't care if I don't win any popularity contests. If I read something that I have found to be incorrect, I am going to disagree. You, in turn, are free to disagree with me- such is life. I don't see why it has to be taken so damned personally, as I'm pretty sure the viruses we are arguing about really don't care.


*amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

[calibmom24]

Just want you to know I agree with you Amber. And Kate calm down no need to freak out!! I will say this, it seems alot of people on this sight seem to want to find the negative and always believe the negative. I just find it very strange. I am not saying any individuals are strange. I am just confused.


Brandi

[one who squeaks]

Oh dear.

Articles like these aren't outright incorrect, but their wording is misleading:

If a person sick with a norovirus
touches a surface, the virus can survive for as long as 12 days, she
said. Anyone who touches the same surface and then touches his or her
mouth could get sick.</font>



That statement implies that anyone</span>
infected with a norovirus will leave germs behind when they touch a
surface. Not true, if they practice proper hygiene. (But someone who
doesn't wash their hands can most certainly leave garbage behind.)

Virology is often complicated-- some people just shouldn't be allowed to write news articles, haha. [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]



Now random stuff, 'cause I don't like taking sides. :x



-Here's a great</span> virology website: http://www.virology.net/garryfavwebindex.html

I can spend hours just getting lost in there. Have at it!

-Virologists work for the CDC and for WHO. I'd say they're fairly reliable sources.

-Noroviruses CAN survive on surfaces for long periods of time, warm or
not. In fact, you can even freeze them and they'll still giggle at you.
...Eww.

-Viral outbreaks/illnesses aren't getting worse, really. There are good
years and there are bad years. As for mutations, a lot of them are
inconsequential in the long run. Once in a while you get a new nasty
strain, but a mutation doesn't necessarily mean the virus has become
"stronger."



Hope I didn't offend anybody. :/



In the meantime, I'm glad I don't live near Virginia Beach. LOL.

[christi0126]

Katie- I would have to side with you. I used to enjoy reading Ambers posts but it has gotten to be where Amber only seems to respond to posts she can argue with or about and then always acts amazed when people tell her to back off. Amber, I never see you post to anyone when they are feeling ill or need reassurance you never talk about your fear....which makes me wonder why you are even using this site if you don't need help and don't offer people help with their fear. The site is called EMETOPHOBIA, not "lets debate". It just gets old. If you are going to debate don't act shocked when someone fires back at you....if you can dish it then you need to learn to take it.

[babygap5]

I agree with you Kate and Christi. I've often thought twice about posting something that some others might find interesting for fear of the rath of Amber and several other members on this site. Everyone's opinions have to be respected and sometimes, the replies you give Amber are attacking, even if you aren't meaning them to be, I know I've personally felt attacked because you are disagreeing with an idea.


And I'm sure history will repeat itself, let the debate begin! And the funny thing, this post didn't start out with a controversial topic, it was simply an article Charlene felt would interest us.

[crimgoddess]

Hahahaha- the wrath of Amber. I do believe if I ever make a low budget film, that would have to be the title.


First of all- Christi0126- I kinda figured this site was about emetophobia- the hundreds of posts referring to "puke/fear of" was my first hint. You know,that and the fact that it's called the "International Emetophobia Society". And I wouldn't BE here if I wasn't affected by it, and have made posts when I was stressed about a situation which made me uncomfortable. I am not someone who is going to post repeatedly for reassurance because I don't think it's healthy- and I shouldn't feel obligated to. That, and at the moment I'm doing really well in terms of this phobia.


Hmmm- to me this is is kinda related to something Japa posted ahile ago:


http://www.emetophobia.org/forum/for...sp?TID=11043&a mp;PN=4


And there is a difference between arguing for the sake of arguing, and saying "hey, I disagree, here's why". I find it kinda sad that people have a hard time when someone disagrees with them- it's not like I kicked your dog or asked for your first born child. It's just that I disagree with you on a TOPIC- it really has nothing to do with how you are as a person, or you personally. Chris and I disagree with each other at least once a week- and we LOVE each other.


And disagreement over something that canbe pretty cut and dry too- it seems bizarre to me that this would even BE a point of contention. So, I didn't start any real debate here- I just disagreed. What resulted didn't even INVOLVE what I disagreed with, it was just 'how dare you disagree'. It's definitely not a situation where I can dish it out but can't take it- I have no problem if someone disagrees with me on a TOPIC- I will back up my position, but won't be offended or anything. What I do have a problem with is someone taking the fact that I disagreed with them on a topic and turning it into a personal attack. So, if you're pissed about something I said, call me on it. If you're pissed at ME in general, that is a totally different matter.


Funny, I said something similar to what Sage didin this post:


http://www.emetophobia.org/forum/for...sp?TID=11033&a mp;PN=1


Yet when I say it, its a massive controversy?


Calibmom, thank you


And One Who Squeaks, thank you also for posting that link and the information. I definitely have it bookmarked for perusing.


*amber*

[kate1966]

Calibmon24.......Kate is very calm...always has been...i could really care less about any of this if you want to know the truth...just stating my opinion on Amber's way of putting other people's opinion's in the garbage all the time. I don't care who's right or wrong...it makes no diff. to me. I just wish more folks on here would speak up and let her know the same thing, that's why she keeps doing it....


Amber, no i'm not insecure at all....i don't care if you agree with me or not...and you don't see me on here everytime you post something arguing with you either...so the only reason i said something is b/c noone else on here will tell you anything. I don't know how old you are, and it really doesn't matter, but you seem to have alot of knowledge about alot of things, and that's great, and you have your right to your opinion...just like the rest of us do....so why can't you just state your opinion without writing 6 page long posts that noone wants to read anyway, just to prove that you are right? It's ridiculous....this site is to support each other, and help each other, not to tell us we are wrong, and preach to us like we are kids. Nobody gives a s*** about all your hoopla long messages.


Christi0126~~~ THANK YOU SO MUCH for speaking up and saying what you feel. Not many people will do that on here for some reason. I so agree with you what you said about Amber, how why is she even on this site anyway.....but whatever, anyone can be on here....I also agree it used to be very nice to come here and say anything you wanted and ask for help and receive it, without having to go through all the freakin drama....it's so childish. But anyway, that's about all i have to say on this matter really....Thanks so much again, for being brave and speaking up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[marby]

I'm glad Amber isdoing well right now in terms of this phobia. I think it bears sayingthat not everyone on this site is in that place in their lives. As a result,it may be much easier for someto see things in a more logical and less panic associated way thanothers - hence the differences we allhave/feel with regard to this and othertopics. The bottom line is that this is a place where EVERYONE should feel comfortable coming to get support, vent, whatever they need at the time without feeling like they will be questioned, personally attacked or made to feel "wrong".

[hippychick]

Ok firstly personal attacks on ANYONE on this site are comepletely unneeded and frankly I'm sick of breaking the drama's up.

The article. Is misleading. Yes noro virus can be airbourne but ONLY if you are standing right near someone when they v* and then there can be like a spray. It is NOT airbourne in the same way a cold is. Can't catch it from breathing the same air.

rubysoho120 is spot on in what she said. Read her post and believe it. Why believe evrything the media says?

I have to repeat again that ANY personal attack on any other member will NOT be tolerated. This is not a "lets pick sides" kind of thing. Agree, Disagree. I don't really care just be respectful to other people and that goes for everyone in this thread.

If you have a problem with someone PM them or PM me, but do NOT bring it out here again.


Edited by: hippychick

[babygap5]

Hippychick - I like your "pm" rule HOWEVER it doesn't do any good. Several times I've written to John regarding certain members behavior towards me and others where I feltpersonal opinions were attacked and I know I've written to you a few times as well and the bottom line, NOTHING IS EVER DONE - not that there IS anything that can be done, as Amber pointed out, everyone is entitled to free speech.


As far as the article is concerned and how the media treats the norovirus breakouts is simply trying to alert people to what is going on. It's a pretty big deal when an entire school is involved and that is why it is in the news, not because it's a slow day in the media, just because that is news, especially to the people who live in that area.


I think part of the reason that Kate stated what she did regarding you specifically Amber, is partly on your comments in the past. Even though at times you have been supportive to people, the majority of your opinions are condesending and could be interpreted as being rude. It's a great thing that your emet is under control as it is, as is mine, but your "supportive" responses might not be taken as that. Your responses lack the compassion that other members responses do and people may interpret it as being rude.


With regard to Sage's post stating what you stated, you wondered why no one questioned her, well, my guess, it's along the same lines as why you were never questioned, until now, pure fear of the rath. It's hard to disagree or debate a topic with someone who keeps reminding people of their educational accomplishments. There's nothing wrong with that, but that is very intimidating. It's also intimidating since her field is psychology, certain people might not feel comfortable questioning her since she is such an authoratative figure. I also think that people on this site are using her as a "therapist" which is why no one wants to disagree with her.


I don't know John but his reasons for starting this site were to help people with emet. Over the years several other areas on the forum were created for OT and such, a place where non emet related things could be discussed and debated. I stopped reading those posts because it was not worth it for me to get my feelings hurt however, it's now overflowing into other posts.


Hippychick, your response was, in my opinion, rude. Your tone was uncalled for. Kate stuck up for something she believed in and so did Amber. Whether you agree with where it's posted or not, it's not your call, these things happen in all posts even if they start out as innocent as this one did.


Ok, I promise, this is my last post on this forum FOREVER. Let me leave you all with this thought. This is the internet. People, use your heads when it comes to putting so much faith into what other's say. Is Sage really that educated? Is Sage possibly Alvin? Does Alvin even exist? Has Amber suffered from emet or is she using us for her master degree research? I know I've thought these things before because, this is a site on the internet, people can "be" whatever they want. Just remember that the next time Alvin posts something or Amber posts something claiming to be educated in something that's why I suggest you use your common sense and ask AN ACTUAL DOCTOR.


KEEP THIS SITE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE IT WAS CREATED FOR, NOTHING MORE! PEOPLE WOULD BE BETTER HELPED IF WHAT THEY GOT WHEN THEY CAME HERE WAS SUPPORT, NOT A DEBATE! THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF OTHER SITES ON THE INTERNET DEDICATED TO STUFF LIKE THAT, NOT THIS PLACE. IT WAS CREATED FOR THE TREATMENT OF EMETOPHOBIA. AS FOR JOHN, I HAVE RESPECT FOR HIM HOWEVER, HE IS RARELY HERE TO SEE WHAT THIS SITE HAS TURNED INTO.


Kate, Charlene, I'll keep in touch via email. I wish all of you the best. I know I've said this before, but I can't take this site anymore. John cre

[hippychick]

I apologise if anyone has thought my tone rude as it was not intended, my problem babygap is if these debates are left to run I get slammed for not deleting them by several people, if I ask people to take it off the forum I get slammed again. I'm not taking any side because I don't specifically agree with any side.

There is no tone to my posts except sheer frustration at not having been able to find a working solution to this problem that keeps cropping up again and again. Anytime someone has PM'd me I have done my best to sort it out except in those forums where I don't have any mod access.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any other research done either except that I KNOW the way that article is written is misleading. As was pointed out further up thread it says the virus can live for 12 days if a sick person touches a surface only IF that person has washed their hands. Something that is ommitted. And after having talked to Drs and researched Norwalk myself I've only ever heard that the only time it's airbourne is in a spray when someone V* not airbourne in the way that article would lead you to believe.

I'm not inhuman, I get things wrong, I'm just a mod. But I don't know how exactly to resolve this issue when everybody wants something different.

I agree that debates grow and arise naturally in life, when they involve a personal attack I will always step in no matter who I agree with or don't.

Edited by: hippychick

[kate1966]

Judy......CHEERS GIRL I 100%....TOTALLY agree with everything you have just said...


I myself will be leaving this site also....i can't stand the bs and the always taking up for the ones who THINK they know everything. It's ashame it has come down to this. It truely is....


Judy, thanks for standing up for me....i do appreciate it alot. I will keep in contact with you as well, and a few others too.


I wish all of you the best, and hope that you will recover from this emet, and get the support you need, i truely do...it's been nice, but it's time to go now.......maybe one day, all this bs will stop on here...Best of luck to you all!!!!!

[hippychick]

P.s I'd like to say that I'm quite offended with the accusation that nothing is done. Looking through my PM's from you Judy I find one with an issue with a thread, which I responded too and then a second thanking me for my reply. I try my best to deal with all PM's that I can do something about. That's why I'm here after all.

[kristin1980]

man its kinda sad that people have to leave the site over all this, everyone can have thier own opinion, i have certainly had others give theres to me in some of my posts but i am not getting offended by it. and its just sad that it would be the cause of someone leaving the site.


Why cant we just let it go allready this is ridiculous.. not everyone is going to get along there are just some people out there that i dont get along with but i make the best of it and listen to the people i do trust. Everyone has thier own personalities, some stronger than others. I have met many like this but i dont take it too personal cuz who am i to change someone? I cant.. i can only work on me. That is why I am here. Not for anyone eles.. anyone can give their opinions if they want. I am still here to get better. No one can stop me from doing just that.

[daffodil]

Well said, Kristin! Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I think it is sad that some people are leaving because they feel attacked. This is supposed to be a safe place. Can't people just agree to disagree?