women’s issues

[shiva]

Does anyone else find it disturbing that women are expected to take on more and more duties at home/workforce- pretty much forsaking sleep to take care of everything, still including the little ones. While men onthe other hand have not really had to take on many more new tasks or jobs with the exceptionof some domestic duties (which it's okay if they fail at because the common mentality of 'thier just men, they are not wired for it' gets them off the hook)? Trust me, I am not a feminazi man hater by any means, and I was fortunate to have found a guy who does not subscribe to any kind of neandrethal like mentalities- this is just something I am seeing more and more in society in general.


Women are having to work longer and harder, still being paid less for the same job. Women are also still treated as minorities all across the board in every country in the world.


I am glad that women have been given more opportunities and choices concerning what they wish to contribute to society and do with their time, but because of economic reasons it's almost unrealistic for any woman to be able to solely stay at home and care for their children these days. And if the family makes the decision to do so- sacraficing money for the child's stability- society almost insinuates that she is less of a contributor to society because she 'just stays at home with the kids'. To me this is the most important job a woman could ever do. I don't feel that every woman has to chose to stay at home and raise a family. Like I said, thank god for choices. But what burns my ass is when women decide to work out of the home it seems almost as if we have to work so much harder just to prove that we are capable. It seems that in the work place we either have to work so much harder to prove ourselves or, we are just expected to be incompetent because we don't have dicks.


I don't know what is bothering me so much about this. The subject doesn't really even directly touch my life that much. I think it's all the statistics from these freaking sociology classes that are burning my ass. That along with the fact that I have found myself in this sick schedule of school, work, cleaning the house- none of which includes myself or my family and I feel that I have kind of lost my priorities (family/self). But, I feel that if I take a break from school, or only work one job in order to spend more time with my family, or take time off to add to it (have a baby) that I am being judged as being lazy or something.


I wish I could go back to the days that I didn't think so much about this s*** in a way. Everything I see all day at work now makes me think of the inequalities between the genders and I see everything as being offensive or unfair. For instance, our store manager freaking whistles to get the girls' attention. Ya know, kinda like how one would whistle for a dog to come. He could just use our names, but he freaking whistles and then gives demands like 'phone's for you' or 'get the back door'. But he never freaking whistles at the men employees, he uses their names. What the f*** is up with that?


I think I'm just sleepy! Lol! But if anyone else has had similar thoughts I would be very interested in hearing them.

[Galadriel]

Hey Shiva,
To be honest I know what you mean. I see it all over the place, women who are burnt out because they are mothers and career women and also somehow do 50 million other little things like be in this group or on that committee and manage still to hold birthday parties for their kids. I honestly dont know how they do it. My bro's gf has a job (sometimes even 2) and has 3 kids that she was (till she met my brother about 6 months ago) raising by herself. I dont know how she does it honestly. I would be burned out completely within a week, and she is a very pleasant person and is nice to be around from what I can tell of seeing her. In a way tho part of me feels somewhat inferior (and most likely its just in my mind), but I see her able to juggle all this stuff, and I just work (no kids) and I feel sort of lacking like I need to "pull my weight too" or something. I get the unspoken impression sometimes that if you aren't busting your rump going on next to no sleep every nite then you are somehow inferior. I mean most likely its just my own head doing this, but I get the distinct undercurrents somehow that I'm not as "worthy" a person unless my life is filled jammed packed to the breaking point.

[crimgoddess]

I think part of the problem is that women are also letting this happen. They allow their partners to skimp out of domestic responsibilities and childcare, either because they were raised with a gendered division of labour and don't see a problem with it, or feel that they are somehow less of a women if they don't take it all on themselves. They don't necessarily fight for equal wages anymore, or speak up when faced with overtly sexist hiring policies or comments.


It's one thing to say that this damned patriarchal society is opressing us...it's another thing to buy into it yourself, or not work to change it, at least in the microcosm that is your life. It really pisses me off too- but as much as it pisses me off when I see a man expect to come home to a clean house and dinner every night, it pisses me off MORE to see women buy into that, accept it, and not question why the onus is on them to do this, when a relationship is supposed to be an equal partnership. It especially chafes my ass when both parties work, are in school, or have other committments, yet are still expected to take on these extra duties.


Between my work, school, and volunteer comittment, Chris and I work about the same amount of hours. Damned if he is going to think that the housework is also my responsibility by virtue of my vagina. The thing is, he doesn't- it is OTHER women who ask me about it, expect me to be the primary cook/cleaner, and question the work I do and the hours I spend outside of the house.


One one hand I think we have been dealt a crap deal- on the other hand, I think that to some extend we have allowed this and continue to allow this.


*amber*

[Galadriel]

Hey Amber,
Yeah I notice a lot of times its women perpetuating it by "comparing notes" in a way. I dont think that helps anything.

[confusedgirl]

I could really go on about this topic... it is upsetting. I've studied sociology too, and some of the facts are very disturbing. I have a lot of respect for parents (of either gender) that stay home and take care of the kids... but it shouldn't be expected of one parent or the other (though, in my mind, I don't believe a family should have kids if they are not willing to take care of them - it makes me mad when a family drops their kids in day care, then school, then after school programs, rather than taking care of the kids during the day themselves - but that's another issue).Sometimes, I will turn on the TV, or listen to music, and just everything I see/hear is upsetting. Last night, I think, I was watching commercials on TV and it seemed like every one had subtle, yet demeaning, messages about women in it!! I was tired at the time too so probably a little more harsh then normal, but still! It is so stupid that degrading women or assigning stereotyped roles to either gender is still so commonly accepted.

[shiva]

Galadriel,
Thanks for posting back. I guess it was on my mind a lot because it seems like lately all of the women I know are battling inside about what they are supposed to be doing with themselves. I know we have options, but sometimes it does seem as though it's expected that we do as your brother's girlfriend does and totally forget about ourselves so that we can keep 10 balls in the air at once. I see this most with my sister- Her husband is a complete lump. Meanwhile she is taking care of all of the finances, the house, the dogs. He just sits on his ass. I can't help but wonder how my sister puts up with it. And of course, he's the one who wants children.

Before I met my new husband I had some traditional ideas of how men and women were. I was one of those people who truly felt that women should be home with the kids and men should be out working. And when he came home, you took care of him. Interestingly, Victor completely changed my thinking on this subject. Since I met him it's slowly been changing and I have never paid so much attention to all the crap going on around us. He has always shared domestic responsibilities and was the first person in my life to suggest to me that I could accomplish whatever I wanted to. The first person to teach me to demand respect from all people.

Amber,
You are so right, women definitely share the blame for allowing such treatment to continue. (like my sister) It's funny because I had a friend who was newly married and she didn't have a job. Because of this she- herself- felt subserviant and would wake up each day at 4 with him. Lay his clothes out, pack his lunch, clean like a mad woman all day, cook a 4 course meal for dinner. She actually took his work boots off for him and rubbed his feet first thing when he came in the door. (daily) Served him his meal first and no matter how she was feeling at the time made sure to give him oral sex every freaking night right after dinner. She felt that this was how she had to 'earn her keep' since he brought in the money. She did this to herself. He didn't ever ask for this or expect it. But- here's the interesting part. She did resent it. She resented what she did to herself. Of course when she started working, he was already trained to demand this lifestyle and now they have massive issues. Interesting course of events to watch, I must say.

I agree that women sometimes perpetuate this treatment and I wonder what the hell can be done to change it. Victor tells me that it's slowly changing and it will just take time. I just hope the world is different when my daughter is an adult.

Confusedgirl,
Personally, I agree. I think that if it's possible one parent should definitely try to stay home with the kids. And more and more it is the father and I think that's great if it works for the family. My aunt has this kind of set up and their family is amazing. I guess it's just a matter of people making sure they see eye to eye on these issues before they get married and start a family.

[Galadriel]

Hi Shiva,
Man that is sorta sad about that newly married woman. Things like that can definately cause problems.

I was thinking about this and my dads gf is like this too, she works daycare from her home all day, and manages to cook nice meals for them (when he goes on his visits) and she also has a daughter in the home. She gets up at like 5am, and lots of nights doesn't sleep till 1am, 2am, even sometimes 3 or 4 am just doing things getting things cooked or cleaned up. The poor woman practically lives on coffee. I mean I see women like this around me, and how can I compare? I can't. Of course my dad and bro see them as something like wonder women (which they are in a way), and tho its unspoken, I get the feeling that I just can't measure up to these examples.

Argh sorry, I'm dragging personal stuff in, but I guess it just shows that it is widespread. Then again my dad does a lot too, he often helps her cook and such, so its not liek he doesn't do anything, and also my bro is right there with his gf helping her with the kids, so they are very good about that. I am not too keen on these guys who sit like lumps while the women are rushing about trying to get everything done.

I do think tho it is getting much more acceptable to have the husband be the stay at home cook/kid raiser. Me and my husband sort of have this arrangement, I go out and work and he stays home and does the housework (he is on disability), and it works good for us where we are at.

[shiva]

It's not fair to you to compare yourself to this. Something similar happened to me recently. I saw other women around me seeming to manage a thousand things at once and so I decided that if they can do it, then certainly I can do it too. So, this is when I was taking on 3 jobs at once, I started school full time, I was completely involved in Jade's school and other activities, I was involved in PanCan, going to the gym 5x a week and doing yoga (for me time) every morning for an hour. I lasted about a year on 3 hours of sleep and feeling like I was getting all of this stuff accomplished and feeling really great about myself.

Then it happened.... You know how I recently got married. Well, the week before I was leaving- I got sick with a s*** kicker cold. I was down- there was nothing I could do. I missed work, I missed classes, the house went to hell, I couldn't work out. And my daughter came to me and said that it was nice that I was sick because she got to see me. Oh my god.... Then I had to get myself together to go meet Victor in California to be married. The week that I was sick I did a lot of reflecting on what had been going on in our lives lately and realized how sad it was that I was about to marry him and I had hardly spent any time with him the previous year.

Anywhoo... Fast forward and we are married and in beautiful northern california. The couple that owned the bed and breakfast we stayed at were talking about how they had lived in LA before and just decided to leave that lifestyle behind and come up north to relax. Now that made sense to me. The whole time we were there I was trying to figure out how the hell we could move to northern cali. It was beautiful and very slow paced. After coming home I realized that I am not like those women who can 'do it all'. I was doing everything half assed- my jobs- being a mom- taking care of my home- my classes- spending time on myself (i hadn't worked on desensitization or seen my therapist in the year that i was in go-go-go mode.) Then I realized that I was failing many of my classes, my daughter missed me, my house was a mess and quite honestly I was tired and stressed! So, this is what I learned the past month and I am so done with this.

And back to the idea behind the original post- for some reason I feel like I am a failure as a modern woman because I cannot successfully juggle all of these things. In my heart I know that's bs, but there are outside forces making me feel like a failure. I seriously feel like a failure. I am struggling with these feelings. I know it's not logical. I don't know where they are coming from. I just wanted so bad to be able to do it all. And I can't.

Victor wants a baby and I have been going back and forth about it because of the emet thing mostly, but also just not knowing how to incorporate it into my schedule. Then I realized how sad that is. This is life- my one experience here as me and what am I doing with my time? So, of course... This summer we are going to start trying for a baby and things will work out as they will work out. But, I am sooo freaking not going to ever put myself and family through what I did the past year ever again. Looking back, I was not a very nice person and I can't believe he even married me.

So... That was the long version of what I learned which is this: Everything you do, be present in doing it. Doing things half assed is not really doing them and it's a recipe for failing. As long as you are doing your best and loving what you are doing each moment of your life- or as often as you can- then you are successful. f*** the rest of it. Be happy. Be healthy. Don't succomb to stress. Be you.

[Galadriel]

Hey Shiva, wise words!
You know, maybe some of these other women are feeling similar, that they have to keep it all up or will feel like they are failing somehow. Then again there are those who don't really have a choice, they just have to do it.
Still though, you are right it is silly to compare myself, and logically I know this, yet something keeps gnawing at my mind telling me "you need to do more, you need to get involved more in this that and the other thing or you just aren't doing your part! Look at so-and-so, she is doing all this and busting her rump and likes her lifestyle, shape up!" I know its bs too, still though it is there.