Would you stick a finger down your throat?

[rachel1989]

I think if you want to try it, you should. Only you yourself will know what is right for you and if this is a route you want to explore especially if you feel you have nothing to lose, do it.. Just be careful and take care of yourself x

[m0ndaymay]

I have decided that I'm going to do this. To say I'm terrified is an understatment but, if I wasn't, there would be no need to go through with this because I wouldn't be emetophobic. I spoke with my therapist again... it's going to be in a controlled environment, meaning, he'll be there with me to ensure that nothing bad happens to me (that's comforting), I will do it at my own pace.. there won't be any pressure of "you have to do it NOW"... so I can back out at the last minute if I want. If I do go through with it and after the first gag/retch I can't continue, we stop. And if I go through with it all the way and actually vomit, we are going to have a therapy session right after so that I can work through what just happened. So it's not like I'm going in, sticking a finger down my throat, and going home having to deal with the emotional aspect of it by myself.

I don't know if it will work. I don't even know if I'll be able to do it. But, my intention is to try it. Like I said, I have to overcome this... I don't want to live like this any more... and what if THIS is, as my therapist says, the last step in CBT... pushing through the finish line, so to speak... that will cure me... and I don't do it? How stupid would that be?

If it doesn't work, well, I'll add this to all the other things I've done/tried that didn't work.

I'm terrified just thinking about it.... wish me luck!

[jaynielu]

I wish you all the best of luck... take care

[m0ndaymay]

Thanks jaynielu. I'm on my way to my appointment... I may not need to stick a finger down my throat because I'm so nauseous from fear, I might just vomit naturally lol (nervous laughter). I really hope I don't chicken out because sure, that would give me immediate gratification (avoiding the emotional pain of vomiting) but long-term, it'll set me back. I know I'll be so disappointed with myself for not even trying if I do back out. We'll see how it goes, I guess. I'll report back after my appointment and let you guys know how it goes. Thanks everybody for your support.

[Jill in Apartment 413]

I just wanted to wish you luck (Even though it's a little late) and add my two cents. For one, if my therapist (Who I love like a mother, unhealthy attachment I know) could be there to comfort me every time I vomited, I don't know how scared I would be to do it. My own mother was very insensitive about the whole thing when it did happen the very few times when I was young/that I can remember. She never really tried to comfort me and I always vomited alone instead of her in the bathroom with me, except for one time I can remember where I was leaning over the toilet gagging and she was sitting next to me. I didn't vomit that time, but she was there.

Anyway, my therapist is very very comforting to me, I have been seeing her for three years and she got me over my agoraphobia and really helped me with my emet to a point where I can eat out and even cook my own food and eat it. She has never once asked me to induce vomiting or even brought it up, and I thank her for that, but now that I think of it, I would do anything she wanted me to do and if she honestly thought it was a good idea I would do it for her.

I think one of my big fears of vomiting (No matter what the reason I am terrified, whether alcohol/virus/self induced/upset tummy) is that no one will be there to comfort me afterwards. I need someone there to tell me it's going to be okay, to even go as far as hold me, which my mother never would do after I vomited. (My mom is FAR from an emet by the way she's just....well you don't want to know the issues I have with my mother and father it's too long)

I guess what I am trying to say is, if you think it's a good idea go for it and I hope that it all works out for you! I Can't wait to check this thread in the morning!

[idontfeelreal]

I find it funny that other people also worry more about the Norovirus than anything else that could make you sick! It's really the only thing that bothers me. I rarely worry about Ecoli, Salmonella, hangovers, the flu virus or any other factors that would make me throw up nearly as much. JUST the Noro virus. Why is that???

As for making myself throw up... I have sometimes gotten to the point where I just want to make myself do it to get over my fear of it. I haven't thrown up in 15 years so I've built it up into such a horrible thing, where I think if it happened I'd probably say "wow, that's not THAT bad?" I just hate the anticipation of it.

[m0ndaymay]

UPDATE - I did it. (part 1)

My initial thought before the appointment was not to eat anything, which is one of my avoidance behaviours. My reasoning is that if I have an empty stomach, there's nothing to vomit. But that would defeat the purpose of this appointment. The agreement was, I was going to eat a meal because if I was going to do it, there had to be something to throw up. So I ate. The fact that I was able to do THAT was a mini-miracle in itself because I was so nauseous from fear that I thought I might vomit BEFORE even getting to my therapist's office.

So I get to his office. I'm in a full-blown panic attack, visibly shaking - the whole nine yards. Not a surprise - of course I'm going to feel like this as I'm about to face my worst fear head on. So I kept reminding myself that this reaction was to be expected and even normal under the circumstances.

My therapist, as usual, was amazing. We sat in his office and we had a "pre-puke" pep talk of sorts. He reminded me that having a panic attack about it was normal.... if I wasn't panicking, I wouldn't be emetophobic. He reassured me yet again that I waa in complete control.... I didn't have to do it at all.... I could stop at any time and he would be perfectly supportive of that (no pushing, no guilting). He also reminded me that the only time I may not be able to stop at will if I wanted to, was in the middle of actually vomiting. Once that started, it WOULD stop, but after my body was ready to stop it. I knew this but it was so helpful of him to remind me. He went through what I could expect.... and that he would be right beside me and he promised he would not let anything bad happen to me. I trust him so this was comforting although I have to be honest, in that moment, it did nothing to make me less terrified.

Once I was ready, we move to his private bathroom. He proceeds to clean the already clean toilet inside and out in front of me because he wanted me to be as comfortable as possible and knows that my emetophobia also makes me a germaphobe. He then washed his hands, very well I might add, in front of me. All of this was unexpected but a nice touch... it really did make me feel better because the thought of sticking my head in ANY toilet, but especially someone else's, without knowing how clean it really is, disgusts me.

With the toilet and his hands clean, he starts to coach me through it after I give him the go-ahead that I'm ready to start - as ready as I'll ever be. So he instructs me to kneel in front of the toilet. I have to tell you that this was SO difficult - I felt like I was assuming the position of my execution. My already full-blown panic attack became even worse... I thought I was going to pass out or die. He saw/sensed this, so he gently placed his hand on my shoulder and said, "You're in control here, what your body is doing, what your mind is telling you, this is all part of your fear, it's the emetophobia talking, you can choose to give into it and it wins again, or you can choose to use everything you've got to push through it and beat it once and for all." I started crying. I have never cried in any of our therapy sessions no matter how painful what we were talking about was.

With me knelt in front of the toilet looking at it as if it was some scary monster, shaking and crying, with his hand on my shoulder, he proceeded to say, "It's just a toilet... it's clean... it won't hurt you... I'm right here with you and you're perfectly safe.... all you're feeling is just anxiety... you're not sick... you're not dying... it's just another panic attack.... like you've had so many times before... it won't hurt you.... you're in control.... "

I replied with, "I need you to coach me through it because I haven't vomited in so long, I don't know what to do..."

He said, "When you're ready, put your finger to the back of your throat until you hit the gag reflex... you'll gag... it will scare you... you'll want to stop and it's okay if you do..... when you're ready, go ahead if this is what you want to do...."

So I did it. As soon as I gagged just a little bit, he was right, my already full-blown panic attack got even worse - something I didn't think was possible. My heart was pounding in my chest and in my ears. Gently rubbing my back now ( he had asked me prior to starting any of this if it was okay for him to touch me during all this) he said, "You're okay, you did great, take a deep breath, you're not in any danger." and then reminded me "you're in control, you can go forward or you can stop.. . your decision".

I put my finger down my throat again, shut my eyes as tight as I could, focussed on his hand on my back, and kept gagging, retching for what felt like an eternity but was really only a couple of minutes maybe. Nothing came up even though my stomach was full and I was horribly nauseous from before even getting to his office. He instructed me to stop at this point, take a deep breath.... he asked if I wanted to continue to which I said no but yes I was going to continue because I wanted to overcome this fear. So he talked me through a brief body relaxation exercise... still knelt in front of the toilet we did some breathing exercises and progressive body relaxation. When I was ready, I once again put my finger down my throat.

Gag, gag, gag, gag, dry heave, dry heave, retch retch retch retch..... my eyes felt like they were going to pop out of my head.... and then it happened. Everything I had eaten came up... in waves..... three huge heaves. All I could think while I was actually vomiting was " Oh God make it stop, make it stop...." I heard my therapists voice saying things like, "You're doing it! You're perfectly safe, I'm right here with you, it's going to end soon, I'm so proud of you, you're so strong......" And then it stopped.

Still kneeling by the toilet I reach up to flush because what I saw in that toilet looked disgusting, but he gently touched my hand and said, "If you can, I want you to just sit there for a minute and look at it." I didn't want to look at it, it smelled horrible, all acidic, but I trust him and I came this far so I pulled my hand away and looked at my vomit in the toilet. He said, "It's just vomit... the contents of your stomach... that's all it is.... it looks gross, smells bad, but that's okay. It's not going to hurt you. I would like you to just look at it and smell it, don't hold your breath, while we do some more relaxation exercises." So he talked me through more breathing and muscle relaxations while I stared and smelled my own vomit. "If you're okay with it, I would like you to stay right where you are (knelt in front of the toilet) and we're going to use all the coping techniques you have learned until your anxiety goes away completely... then we'll flush the toilet and you can get up and wash your face and rinse your mouth. Are you okay with that?"

Of course I wasn't okay with that!!!! But again, I came this far, I trust him, so I said yes. There were a few times when I thought the sight of it, the smell, and the fact that I hadn't yet rinsed my mouth even though I really couldn't taste anything bad, was going to make me retch again.... but it didn't. I listened to his voice and followed his instructions as I "used" all my coping techniques. It took almost a half hour before my anxiety completely went away, and we took breaks in between (I did get up and stretch my legs, looked away, and rinsed my mouth) but I kept going back to the kneeling position in front of the toilet still full of my vomit. Eventually, just as my trusted therapist said, my body and mind calmed right down. No more panic attack, no more fear, and my stomach felt fine.

As I finally flushed the toilet I waved and said out loud, "bye bye fear" and both my therapist and I laughed. I then splashed cold water on my face, rinsed my mouth again with mouthwash my therapist had ready, and we went back to his office where we had a "post-puke" therapy session. I will post about this a little later.

... to be continued

[jenna23]

How is it possible to be able to purge, to the point of being anorexic (which requires a lot of purging, is my point) AND be emetophobic?

you can't purge to the point of being anorexic. You can purge till you're "skinny", sure, but you don't have to necessarily be thin to be anorexic. It's a behavioural and mental illness, rather than an aesthetic one. I'm not being a nitpicker, sorry if that came across as being a bit up myself :P I just don't like seeing it being interpreted wrongly.

And BarbieGirl, I hope you're doing okay x x

[rachel1989]

I find it funny that other people also worry more about the Norovirus than anything else that could make you sick! It's really the only thing that bothers me. I rarely worry about Ecoli, Salmonella, hangovers, the flu virus or any other factors that would make me throw up nearly as much. JUST the Noro virus. Why is that???

As for making myself throw up... I have sometimes gotten to the point where I just want to make myself do it to get over my fear of it. I haven't thrown up in 15 years so I've built it up into such a horrible thing, where I think if it happened I'd probably say "wow, that's not THAT bad?" I just hate the anticipation of it.

SNAP SNAP SNAP!!!! I AM THE EXACT SAME - it's only noro that bothers me! so go away lol and ill be good, ta! lol x

[m0ndaymay]

UPDATE - I did it. (part 2)

So we're back in his office post-vomiting. He tells me he's very proud of me for feeling the fear and doing it anyway. He tells me he can't imagine how much strength and courage it took to push through my panic and make myself face my worst fear head on. So he's rewarding me with a lot of praise. This makes me feel good, builds me up, and I feel happy and proud... like I accomplished something huge.

We talked for about 15 minutes about what had just happened and how I felt about it now, after the fact. I felt really good... like WOW I actually just vomited, willingly, and I'm actually okay! I didn't go crazy, I didn't have to be dragged off to some hospital, and nothing horrible happened. The only horrible thing was the panic that I have for so long attached to vomiting. The vomiting itself, even the gagging and wretching which I hate more than anything else, was not nearly as awful as the fear. So it's the FEAR of vomiting that's the problem and NOT the vomiting itself. Very important distinction. I fear the fear, not the vomiting. The vomiting is just what I have attached a ridiculous amount of fear to.

So my therapist spent the next hour "reprogramming" my brain in an effort to undo the links my brain had made (terror = vomiting and vomiting = terror), and make new brain links: vomiting is unpleasant but nothing to be feared to the point of it interfering with my quality of life. We did this by him having me visualize, while I was in a ver y relaxed state, exactly what it felt like before and during what I had just done: vomited. This was easy enough to do since I had literally just done it. He had me focus on the huge amount of fear I had felt. Then he would quickly have me "snap out of it" (out of that emotional link) by doing or saying something so completely ridiculous that it instantly changed my emotional state. For example, when he was sure I was, in my mind, right there again kneeling in front of that toilet terrified and gagging, he had me quickly jump up, wave my hands around like a crazy person, make weird faces, and make goofy silly noises. This felt silly, made me feel stupid, made me look ridiculous, and so we both laughed. Seeing him laugh made me laugh more. A new brain connection was starting to be made. We repeated this process many times in the hour, to the point where by the end of it, I was having a really hard time feeling any fear when I visualized myself throwing up in that tolet. The visualization had become emotionally neutral. This was the goal. Mission accomplished.

My therapist realizes that although we did tremendous work during this session, and the outcome could not have been better, it will require maintenance. Otherwise it will be very easy to slip back to square one as if this session hadn't even taken place. Just like I strengthened the "vomiting = panic = danger" connections in my brain through repetition, we're going to have to strengthen the new connection of "fear DOES NOT = vomiting, vomiting DOES NOT = danger" through repetition. So, I'm going to keep seeing him regularly, a couple times a week, so we can do more "brain reprogramming" therapy. Doing this should make the emetophobic connection weaker and the "recovered" connection stronger.

So that's what happened. After the fact, I can say that doing this was absolutely the right decision for me. It proved to me that I really am stronger than emetophobia is... that it can throw it's worst at me but that if I decide to, I can push past the terror and be okay. What I'm really excited about is that vomiting has taken my therapy in a completely different and very positive direction... now we can work on changing my brain into a healthy emetophobia-free brain (fingers crossed). What we did up to this point was talk about my fear, my past, my life, and learn coping techniques and ways to change my thoughts and my behaviour (CBT), and that was all necessary to set the foundation for this step, but I feel that now the real break-through work begins.... where, with the help of my therapist, I'm going to change my brain from a phobic one to a healthy one. Thanks for reading.... thanks for all your support and comments. I really appreciate it.

[mooki]

I couldn't. It's too awful a sensation. Nature made your gag reflex as a way of saving your life if something got stuck in your throat. The reflex isn't there to be toyed with for experimentation. Why would anyone force that? It's like jabbing a finger in your eye or something.

[woodchuck0022]

I would never make myself vomit. I have such a fear that I wouldnt even do it if it were to make me better.

[KaydeeJayde]

Mondaymay, you are a strong person and you should be so so proud of yourself! Well done!

[Kristen11]

Yay! Im so proud of you!

[orton99]

Am definitely with Kaydee and Kristen on this - well done Monday!! Those posts were the most astonishing thing I've read in the time I've been here. Absolutely amazing that you faced your fears in such a way.

How do you feel now a day later? (Not so much physically, but mentally.)

And again - WELL DONE!!

[mooki]

Amazing story, Monday. Now I have a question. If the doctor gave you ipecac instead of suggesting a finger in the throat, would you have done that?

[m0ndaymay]

I couldn't. It's too awful a sensation. Nature made your gag reflex as a way of saving your life if something got stuck in your throat. The reflex isn't there to be toyed with for experimentation. Why would anyone force that? It's like jabbing a finger in your eye or something.

It IS an awful sensation, just awful! And before all the therapy I had leading up to this, I too would NOT have been able to bring myself to do it even if it could cure me. I would have rather jabbed my finger in my eye at that point. So I understand how you feel.

[m0ndaymay]

Mondaymay, you are a strong person and you should be so so proud of yourself! Well done!

Thank you but I have to be honest, I didn't feel strong. I was absolutely terrified.

[m0ndaymay]

Yay! Im so proud of you!

Thank you!

[m0ndaymay]

Am definitely with Kaydee and Kristen on this - well done Monday!! Those posts were the most astonishing thing I've read in the time I've been here. Absolutely amazing that you faced your fears in such a way.

How do you feel now a day later? (Not so much physically, but mentally.)

And again - WELL DONE!!

Thank you. A day later I feel pretty good! The best way to describe it is I feel a sense of calm that I haven't felt in a very long time. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I'm looking forward to vomiting again or ever want to do it again (I think that's normal?) but, todaythat chronic generalized anxiety that I've carried around for years, accompanied by thoughts of "will this be the day? what's that weird feeling in my stomach? should I eat that? is this clean enough?" is gone. I feel at peace. I hope it lasts.

[m0ndaymay]

Amazing story, Monday. Now I have a question. If the doctor gave you ipecac instead of suggesting a finger in the throat, would you have done that?

Um... having the advantage of hindsight today, I want to say yes... because I learned yesterday that as horrible as vomiting was, it wasn't the end of the world, I survived, I'm better today (emotionally/mentally/physically) than I have been since probably before I became emet, so today vomiting doesn't scare me like it did yesterday morning. Not that I WANT to do it, you understand.

But, if I go back in my mind to the day BEFORE my vomiting session, my answer would have to be no. I would not have agreed to ipecac because it is my understanding that that causes extreme vomiting (ie projectile vomiting), and it's common to also have diarrhea after the fact.. hours later, and even other health problems. Sticking a finger down my throat with my therapist there gave me a sense of SOME control that ipecac would not. I hope that makes sense.

[m0ndaymay]

The important thing to take away from this is not just the vomiting. Had we stopped there, I don't believe it alone would have accomlished much. What I feel was key and made all the difference was the immedicate follow-up session we had in my therapist's office, where he made sure I properly processed what had just happened and all the "brain rewiring" we did.

So if anyone is considering making themselves vomit as the final form of exposure therapy, please keep this mind. And please don't do it alone. Make sure you have a really good, competent therapist who has experience with this kind of thing right next to you.

That's the best advice I can give.

[kellybeth]

Amazing. Just amazing. I can't belive you did it. You were so brave. Your story gave me so much hope that we all don't have to live in such a state of fear.

[m0ndaymay]

Amazing. Just amazing. I can't belive you did it. You were so brave. Your story gave me so much hope that we all don't have to live in such a state of fear.

Thank you. Believe me when I say that I was beyond terrified to vomit for ANY reason... to the point where I would have literally rather died than vomited. So if I had a choice to vomit once or die, I would have chosen to die. I'm not exaggerating. There were times when I felt so nauseated that I thought for sure I was going to be violently ill, and I decided that if I got sick, and I couldn't handle it, I was just going to kill myself to make it stop. Extreme? Crazy? YES. But that's how I felt and how serious my fear was.

So if I, of all people, can come this far and do this, anyone can. I'm not saying anyone else has to chose this type of therapy, that's a personal decision to be made on an individual basis with the advice of a very good therapist, but I am saying that none of us have to live in that perpetual state of fear emetophobia puts us in. It's exhausting!!!

I'm not sure if I'm cured yet - time will tell - but I haven't felt this safe (that's the best word I can think of to describe this feeling) in... I don't remember how long.

[kellybeth]

How long have you been seeing this therapist? He sounds great. I think it is awsome that he was right there with you and helped you through it. I also LOVED how he told you a few times you could stop at any point and you took control of yourself and and went all the way with it.

This is one of the best stories I have seen here. I mean that.

[m0ndaymay]

How long have you been seeing this therapist? He sounds great. I think it is awsome that he was right there with you and helped you through it. I also LOVED how he told you a few times you could stop at any point and you took control of yourself and and went all the way with it.

This is one of the best stories I have seen here. I mean that.

Thank you. I have been seeing him for a little over 2 years now. Once a week and sometimes twice a week. For the next month or two, I will be seeing him 3x a week to really enforce the new neuropathways in my brain. After that we will revisit the issue and decide together if we go back to once a week, or less. The maintenance will have to continue for a while yet and I'm really happy about that because it would have pissed me off if he had said, well okay you did it, you vomited, you're cured now, nothing more I can do for you, nice knowing ya!

[andee]

Totally agree with you about wanting to die before getting sick...I hope you don't mind but I passed your experience along to my therapist...not to try it but just to have her look at the coping and "rewiring" part. WELL DONE! You ARE brave.

[m0ndaymay]

Totally agree with you about wanting to die before getting sick...I hope you don't mind but I passed your experience along to my therapist...not to try it but just to have her look at the coping and "rewiring" part. WELL DONE! You ARE brave.

No of course I don't mind. I hope it will help you.

I really am not brave. I was desperate, desperate to stop being afraid 24/7, 365 days a year, of this thing that had taken over every area of my life. I have spent/wasted years of my life doing all the "going around the issue" therapies... and it helped, sometimes a lot. But it never completely free'd me of the fear. It always came back as strong as ever. This is the only time I faced it head on. It's true, sometimes the only way out of hell is through it.

[fibigrey]

I read somewhere that forcing an emet to vomit could cause even more damage....

[m0ndaymay]

I read somewhere that forcing an emet to vomit could cause even more damage....

I agree. But I wasn't forced.