Totally OT need advice from moms

[donna1216]

This may bea little long, but it is really a personal problem that has been bothering me for a few weeks and I need some objective advice from my fellow parents out there!


Most of you know I have 2 daughters, Logan (just turned 5) and Haley (just turned 3). I go to a wonderful church and have made many wonderful friends there!!! My friend, Monte is the associate minister of our church and he and his wife Becki have 3 kids, (Reagan just turnedd 4, Bryson is 2 and Cade is 9 mos), we also have a friend Amanda, her little girl is 5 1/2 and her and Logan have been BEST friends since Logan was 2 1/2 and Callie had just turned 3. I have known Monte & Becki since Logan was a year old.


Anyway, more background on the kids, Monte & Becki's daughter, Reagan is VERY VERY aggressive. She hits, kicks, pushes, pinches, bites, not to mention WILL NOT SHARE--she just cannot control herself and the other families at church with small children and I have been putting up with our children being beaten up by her for a long, long time--Another friend of mine has a daughter Leah, who is almost 5, but is very small for her age, she looks like a 3 year old and Leah and my Haley are Reagan's favorite targets--in fact, Haley has been bitten by Reagan twice in the past 2-3 months. And it seems that Monte & Becki just don't know how to discipline their daughter--they discipline their son and he is a little sweethear


Well, Regan's 4th birthday party was 3 weeks ago and all of us were there, at one point during the party, Logan & her best friend Callie were playing in Reagan's room, when Reagan and her 8 yr. old cousinwalk in--Reagan sees the girls playing with her toys, so she picks up a HARD, LARGE, plastic toy and HITS my innocent Logan in the head with it!! Well, being 5 * having no other way to react, Logan slapped her back (I dono't approve of hitting, but I truly believe that in this instance, it was a reflex and she wasn't doing it to HURT her, I know Logan was hurt, she was SCREAMING!) Well, the cousin comes out and just tells Monte that my daughter hit REAGAN--the parents comfort REAGAN and then take it upon themselves to lecture my baby. I admit, that when Logan was 3, she acted like a 3 yr. old and when she was frustrated or when the kids got into arguments, they ALL used to hit each other, but Logan is quite verbal now and does npt hit unless she is provoked. SHe can be snotty and nasty and smart mouthed and obstinate, but she is not mean and she is not a bully.


Well, Becki calls me a few days later to ask me what we should do about the 2 of them, since they can't get along (I"m thinking, "THey can't get along because Reagan hits her and as soon as we see her the first thing she says to Logan is "You can't play in my room and you can't play with my toys") we just sort of discussed it, I thought it was over and it had beendropped. THEN a week 1/2 ago, I find out that Monte has been discussing Logan and her BEHAVIOR with an older lady from our church (who butts into everyone's business) she asked me about it and I was shocked, since I don't think my daughter has a problem, she doesn't fight with anyone else, she's NEVER been in trouble at school, infact her teachers comment about how sweet she is because she encourages the slower kids and befriends the shy girls in class!! Then I got a little resentful about MY child being talked about this way--w/o my presence or knowledge. So I called Becki to ask her about it, she hadn't known that Monte had done that, she apologized (after I told her the REAL story of the birthday incident) and called Monte to yell at him for doing that. I thought the whole thing was over, but I was expecting Monte to at least discuss it with me or apologize or something, because that it something that he preaches!! Well, I went to our Wed. night Bible study last week and nothing had changed, Becki lectured Logan about being nice. It bugged me a lot!! S

[e-lizabeth]

oh, the politics of children and friends...i have heard too many stories like this - most people are just seriously not aware of the possibility that their kids cause problems...except for one of my friends, who turned to me one day and said, "you know what? i finally had to come to the realization that my son's an a**hole and try to figure out what to do about it."


as for your problem, I sympathize but am not sure what advice to give you, except to tell you that you should phone them and say to them, "ummmm...what's going on? could you explain to me why you're not talking to me? aren't we too close to let these kinds of problems get in the way of a friendship?" and you can add some stuff about faith and Christianity (but what do I know, I'm Jewish?). But you may have to accept the fact sadly that these people will not budge, that you were wronged (not wrong) but they're not mature enough to deal with it. I know people who stopped talking because of a similar problem. I'm so sorry. Please keep me posted.


hey, and if all else fails, start talking nasty about them [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]....

[jennyleigh1975]

Donna, I would have such a hard time getting past how they treated my child and how they treated you. This is such a hard situation to be in, Im sure. If this were me, I would try one more time to talk to them, and if you all still cant work it out, then you may just have to be the bigger person, and let it go. Although I know it would hurt to lose some friends. This may just be one of those cases where you have to turn the other cheek. Maybe they will come around and see that it is their child that is the instagator(sp?) Surely other people in your church and other friends of theirs have seen this behavior in this child.

You are not wrong to to want to set them straight about what happened. Deep down I think that parents that have children like that know it, they just dont want to admit it. I think their other friends know it too. They are just treating you this way because you called them on it.

[luna33]

That really stinks. I'm sorry to hear that happened.


Monte and Becki are acting like fourth graders. IMO, both the kids behaved badly. Both hit another child. Never OK in my book, even in retaliation. BUT, they are both young, and chances are they both forgot about it and got over it quickly, unlike Reagan's parents. I mean, it's not like anyone lost a limb. All kids act awful sometimes, and grownups should be able to correct the behavior, and then drop it! My friend's daughter actually strangled my daughter at their last playdate, but my friend corrected her, and am I going around gossiping about her daughter to our other friends? NO WAY! Because that would be ridiculous!


Sorry, people like your friends who make these little kid episodes into huge deals really bug me. One of my friends dumped us for a similar reason (my daughter pushed her daugther off a rocking horse when they were 18 months old---her first, and virtually only, incident of violence toward another child ever). That really hurt me. They are my next-door neighbors, and my daughter asks about their daughter all the time, and I have to constantly tell her she's busy and can't come over to play. And that was 2 years ago. So I feel your pain. I've come to realize that people like that aren't worth it.


I probably would have set the facts straight, too---but not expected them to accept it. A lot of parents are totally blind to their child's faults, and are more willing to get mad at the messenger than their child.


I hope they can start acting like grownups and realize these kid squabbles are nothing to lose good friends over. And I hope your daughter's not taking it to heart--poor kid . I guess all you can do if the fence isn't mended is reassure her that she's a good girl and this isn't her fault. Because it's not hers, or yours, or even Reagan's.

[ontariogirl]

I like Leigh's idea about talking to them one more time to see if this can be resolved. If it can't be than I would stop trying. There has to be people there that sees how their child acts. You had enough guts to stand up to these people, to tell them how you feel and what their child has done, and no one has the guts to do what you did! You were in the right Donna, and it bothers the hec out of me how other people become involved with out peoples business. THis is like school how these people are acting. Its up to you of what you want to do but I commend you for standing up for your child and yourself!

[donna1216]

Thank you all so much, you made me feel much better!! I am the kind of person who gets embarrassed if my children behave badly and I am so quick to blame them for incidents and to punish them, so I really don't understand parents who see their children doing horrible things to others right in front of them and do not punish them. I wonder if Monte has an issue punishing Reagan because she is a GIRL and no problems disciplining her little brother!! ANd he's only 2 years old, still a baby!!! I tried to handle the problem Biblically and I had thought I had done a good job, but now I realize they are the ones with the problem now, I am just so sad because other than this incident, they are the sweetest, most good hearted people in the world and I just love them to pieces!

[donna1216]

Well, my husband called Monte's phone yesterday and left him a message (a very nice messgae, since he hasn't been involved in any of it) and just asked him to call, but here it is over 24 hrs. later, and no response!!! I really feel as though I've lost one of my best friends--and their son is Haley's best friend,I feel awful and the anxiety over it is making me feel sick! Edited by: donna1216

[swiftette]

Oh That is really to bad Donna[img]smileys/smilies_12.gif[/img].It's hard enough to handle the politics of friends and aquaintances at church, butwhen kids are in the mix- ooooh boy. I think it was totaly inappropriate for them to disciplineYOUR child and without even gettingBOTH side of the story!I think you handled everything exactly right-You communicated your feelings and attempted to clear things up. The ball is in their court now I'm afraid. Just try to hang in there. Donna

[ontariogirl]

This blows me away, these adults are acting like children.Your husband called and left a message and it has been over 24 hours and no response? I don't know Donna, you are the bigger and logical person here, its up to you what you want to do with this.

[donna1216]

I know, what makes me even sadder is that both of my girls still think of Reagan as their friend, despite her meanness toward them (and everyone else), and Saturday Logan wrote Reagan a letter on her special stationery she got for her birthday and wrote "I love you, best friends" on it and mailed it to her, I know they would have gotten it in the mail most likely on Monday, but surely got it yesterday and they didn't call or anything!!! I just think that's mean because Logan wrote her that letter out of love!!!

[jennyleigh1975]

I still cant believe that these parents are being like this. they are worse than the child, mainly because they should know better. I know it is hard, but I think it is time that you stop trying to apologize and smooth things over. Please dont take that the wrong way, but you have done all you can do and they arent making any effort. I just hate to keep seeing you reach out and get nothing in response. I know it hurts to lose them as friends, maybe they just need more time to come around. Did you all go to church this Sun., what happened then?

[maxfox]

I know exactly how you feel, I have two sisters and we each have 2 children. Mygirls are 6 and 3years, my next sisters are 2 and 6 years and my eldest sisters kids are 3 and 1year. The only problem my sister Lyn and I have girls and our eldest sister has boys. Harry the 3 year old is just a complete nightmare he even bullies our 6 year olds (even though my girl has now started giving him what for) but my 3 year ols is absolutely petrified of him. My sister and her husband do not disipline him in any way so he just gets away with murder. He doesn't share his toys or anything and is a real whiny child. I must admit my sister and I have put it down to the fact that my eldest sister and her husband work long hours in London and him and his brother are with a childminder all the time and also they are quite well off so he is given anything he asks for and more. I'm not trying to say any working mothers out there are bad but it does seem like a real attention thing with him and the fact that they are never with him they make up for it but letting get away with everything. We cannot say a word not even my mum and dad cos she WILL NOT have a word said against him all she says is "Its cos he's a boy they need to let of steam". The frustration is too much it makes family get togethers a nightmare

[swiftette]

Wow, thats terrible she won't even listen to you sister to sister. Imagine when he starts school!

[ontariogirl]

When my eldest son was younger I made a huge mistake of stepping in on a fight between my son and his friend. I was told to stay out of it because kids fight one day and the next they are best friends. BUT I hate seeing my children hurt by one of their friends or by whomever, its a mother instinct to step in and protect them. Your daughter misses her friend very much and that ticks you off and it hurts, you have tried to resolve this and so far noanswers at all from these people. What I am trying to say is adults can have their fights but don't involve the kids and that is what they are doing. I am so sorry you are going through this Donna. What are you going to do next about this?

[donna1216]

Well, Monte called Greg and we got together yesterday afternoon to discuss it, and I kkind of feel better, but I don't. The whole reason they are blowing this out of proportion is because for the past 3 months, when Reagan is saying her prayers at night, she says, "don't let Logan hit me." Logan and her have had2 physical confrontations that I am now aware of (Monte told me of another one, that I have absolutely no recollection of) and of course, when Becki walked in, she saw the end of the fight and Logan had the upper hand at the time, but of course, they jumped to the conclusion that time again that Logan was to blame. THen he had the nerve to say that they were afraid that we did not discipline Logan when she is doing something wrong--WELL, my friends, Logan is in trouble A LOT!! I just choose not to punish her at their house or in fromt of people, I wait until we are in the car or at home, there is no reason to do it in front of people and humiliate her, that just makes things worse!!! I can't stand it when Greg reprimands her at the store or a restaurant!! And Logan is pretty sensitive, if I give her a lecture and tell her how diappointed I am w/ her behavior or that she embarrassed me or hurt my feelings by misbehaving, I get much better results than yelling or screaming or spanking (which she gets sometimes, don't get me wrong!!![img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]) And now when she yells at me or smarts off, I've started putting ginger powder on her tongue--it stings for a couple of minutes, but doesn't hurt her or cause v'ing (as I am afraid soap or hot sauce would do).


Anyway, I feel a little better, but I feel that Logan is STILL being fingered because of 2 incidents, when, I could point out dozens of incidents of their daughter beating the crap out of Haley, if I wanted to be vindictive, and because of the prayers of a 4 yr. old!! GIve me a break, but I decided to keep Logan away from Reagan and that will just be that!

[ontariogirl]

I am glad that you feel a little better Donna. Being a parents can be stressful! My Tyler babysat my neighbours kids and she owes him for 2 weeks (30$)and he said to me is she going to pay me Mom and I said yes Ty when she gets her money. He said to me that if I worked for someone and they didnt pay me what would you do? I said talk to them and he said yes and if they didn't pay you, you would quit! He said if she doesn't pay me I will tell her that I can't do it anymore. You see she has 4 kids, set of twins are 1, so she walks her daughter to the bus stop every morning and Ty watches them or he will walk her to the bus stop come back and than get ready to go to school. It is good for him making his own money and doing whatever he wants with it, heusually saves it for a part of his PL2. I babysat last week for 4 hours and she said that she will pay me and I said no I won't take your money! Now I know that she got her child tax yesterday and a part of me wants to say to her I don't want you to pay me but make sure you pay Tyler he feels that you have forgotten him. I dont know how I am going to handle this one. Stress who needs it!

[jennyleigh1975]

Donna, I am glad that you all have had a chance to sit down and talk. Im sorry that they are still trying to fault Logan for this. I think they just dont want to admit that their child may have been in the wrong, some people are just like that. I hate for there to be a strain in the relationship between you all though, I know its hard. Maybe this will all blow over soon and be forgotten.

[donna1216]

Well, I forgot to add the WORST part--why I don't feel better about the situation, Monte is a minister, and ministers and their wives are known for hosting things at their homes and for having people over, etc. Well, they host our Wed. Bible study and that's it, nothing else, so for 2 hrs. a week, there are people in their house, well, when we come over, Reagan welcomes Logan and Haley at the door with, "You can't play in my room and you can't play with my toys." THey play in the basement over there, where all of the toys etc. are fair game for all of the kids, according to Becki anyway. Well, when I tried to explain to Monte that it hurts Logan's feelilngs for a friend to treat her that way and that my girls SHARE EVERYTHING, that with the exception of Logan's Snow WHite things and Haley's 2 special babies, that they DO NOT EVER have arguments over "that's mine, gimmee gimmee" they share ALL of their toys with each other and with their friends who come over. His response????? "Well, I feel sorry for Reagan because we force her to have people come and invade her home and her space and her toys and when everyone is there, she has no safe place to go , she's stuck!!!" Cop out??? Not really helping his child with her social issues is he??? Well, then I said I STILL do not appreciate her constant abuse of my little sweet Haley, simply because she is smaller than Reagan and does not hit her back, his response??? "Well, she does that to Bryson, too, he's like Haley, smaller and passive, he doesn't hit her back either, and so he's constantly catching grief from her, but he and I don't have that special relationship that Reagan and I do." SO--apparently it is okay for her to beat up her little brother because Monte doesn't love him as much as he loves her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, let me tell you, just in case I didn't mention this in an earlier post, I love Bryson almost as much as I love my own kids, he's wonderful!!!


Well, here's the clincher, I had to laugh, Wed. after he talked to Greg & I, they cancelled our Bible Study because only my friend Amanda and her hubby were going, but they had the 2 of them over for dinner at their house. Amanda called to tell me that the entire 2 hrs. they were there that Reagan beat up Bryson relentlessly and that finally towards the end, Becki put her in her room, but for an hr. + 1/2 she didn't get disciplined, at one point, they heard Bryson start to cry, and Becki turned to AManda and said, "You'd think that she'd learn that we kniow what she's doing when we hear him cry!" HELLOOOOOOOO--you'd think thatshe'd learn that hitting her brother is fun and that she can keep doing it because NOBODY is making her stop!!!!!!


It just frustrated me!! It's absurd!