stay home when you are sick!

[panzicatink]

i am so angry, somegirl came into my class today and she obviously had the flu, and she told me she did. she looked aweful, and now i am totaly freaking out that i will get sick too!!! what do you guys think? will i get sick too???

[sillygirl]

What do you mean by "flu"? Do you mean the stomach flu or influenza? I would say you probably have a better chance catching influeza than the stomach flu since influenza is airborne and the stomach flu is not. Make sur eyou get lots of rest, eat healthy, take vitamis and keep your immune system up!

[crimgoddess]

I know that when I was in undergrad or doing my graduate courses, there was no way I was going to miss a class- no matter how sick I was (with certain exceptions of course). I pay thousands of dollars for my education, and I'm not going to risk missing out on information, or potentially not doing well- especially since I am ill often and really can't stay home everytime I don't feel my best.


As for whether or not you get sick- no one can tell you yes or no with any degree of certainty. What I can say is that if you didn't exchange fluids, or work of the same surface (ie- if she wiped her nose, and then touched the table), the odds of you catching something is slim. Not saying it's not going to happen- just not likely. Just keep yourself occupied and try not to think about it. And if you do get sick- take care of yourself and it will probably pass quickly.


*amber*

[nikki.l]

If she did not cough, sneeze, or v* in your close proximity and you did not touch the same things (or you washed soon after touching where she touched, like a doorknob), you should be ok.


I'm with you though on not coming to class when you are extremely ill. The common cold, I understand coming to class. But when you have something that can put a lot of your fellow classmates totally out of commission for a few days, it's inconsiderate. They also value their education and don't appreciate being made ill by those less considerate.


Nikki

[curly wurly]

I totally agree. If someoneknows they areill with something infectious they should stay home from school. I heared a mum at my daughter's school say the other day that her son was feeling sick, but as she wanted to go to the gym the school would have to cope with him until she was home again. This annoyed me as if my daughter is ill I always keep her home for her sake as well as the rest of her class. Surely the gym could wait for another day!


I hope you stay well.

[crimgoddess]

Elementary school, and to some extent highschool move at a fairly slow place to allow for the different speeds of learning. You can miss a few days without falling terribly behind- University is a whole otherballgame. Missing 1 three hour class can mean that you miss an entire unit, which can have ramifications for how well you do on exams or assignments, as some of the more anecdotal stuff that gets discussed during class time also ends up being represented. I'm an A student because I work hard at it- go to every class, take my notes a specific way, etc- and I also absorb information better through listening, so if I am in class I will remember more than just doing the readings.


Am I inconsiderate? Meh, I've been called worse. In the case of my education I'm going to put myself first- and if that means going into class sick on occasion so be it. I usually sat with the same group of people, and would tell them I wasn't feeling well. They always had the option to move. My dad also put off retirement to help me out financially, so I feel that I also owe it to him to do my best- which means dragging myself in there on days where I really don't feel up to it.


But I digress....panzic, hope you dont end up ill- but if you do remember, it's only temporary! It can't put you out of comission for long.


*amber*

[stella9]

Amber,


I havea BS and an MBA degree so I am well aware ofhow demanding college and grad school can be. I went to Johns Hopkins, which is a very challenging academic environment. With that said, I never came to school sick. Maybe with a cold, but nothing else. Dragging yourself to class if your are tired or just out of sorts is one thing. Going to class if you are v** or have influenza is quite another thing. You surely are not at your best learning-wise and the only thing you can accomplish is spreading sickness to others.


With e-mail and cells phones, communicating with professors is a lot easier at this time in history. Most professors accomodate serious students who do become sick. I taught at acolleg and believe me, we (the teachers) all knew who the bulls**t artists were. I never ever chastised a student for taking off when they were sick. In fact, I applauded it.


Stella

[mjewell]

I agree with Stella, I was also an A student and graduated college at the top of my class, and I missed classes when i was sick, but I still managed to do well. Professors get sick too, so if you truly are sick and try to make an effor to catch up, they should be understanding. I had a professor who was sick on the day of our final exam, so he ended up having his TA come in and tell us we all got automatic A's. Even in college people get sick, we are only human.

[crimgoddess]

Crap....just wrote a reply and the computer ate it. I hate it when that happens.


I have TA'd four classes at this point- and our response to a student who comes in and says they have missed a class due to illness is to tell them to get the notes from another student- or to solicit volunteers if they don't know anyone in the class. That is fine for some people- but I am really not comfortable with this. Not only do I take my notes a certain way, but in the social sciences most of my classes were lecture-based (no slides or handouts). When someone is trying to write down everything the prof is trying to say, their notes are often disorganized and don't make much sense out of context. I may not be at my best learning-wise, but I can usually pull myself together and take coherent notes that I can understand.


As for exams or assignments- if you miss one of these due to illness you need a doctor's note, or else you will get zero or miss a certain percentage due to lateness. School policy. And vomitting is not sufficient (as many people vomit due to anxiety) for a note, unless it is accompanied by a high fever or infection. I have seen many people try to abuse their supposed illness (or the illness of another) to see that this policy is in place for a reason.


We seem to have a difference of opinion- power to you for taking time off when you are sick. I don't feel comfortable doing so, and would rather go in and do my best, because staying home knowing that class was going on would be agonizing. Like I said, in situations like this I'm putting myself first.


*amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

[californiagirl]

PANICATINK~~~~


I agree that sick people should STAY HOME!!!!!!!!!! I think it's just plain inconsiderate to go to small, closed in places, such as school, when you are sick! Everyone gets sick, your only human, and knowing that, there ARE arrangements that could be made to make up work, complete it online, have it faxed to you, etc. I went to college for four years, and university for two, and when people were sick, the considerate ones stayed home until they were able to come back and function. Some of them still graduated with honors! Schools don't expect students to never get sick, come on!

[shiva]

Well, considering my professors stay out when they are sick (and rightfully so).
I don't understand why I would be expected to come in sick. I also cannot imagine being able to concentrate on learning if I am not feeling well. Not to mention, if you stay home and rest, you will most likely get well sooner and be back to class performing at your best more quickly.

[californiagirl]

Well, considering my professors stay out when they are sick (and rightfully so).
I don't understand why I would be expected to come in sick. I also cannot imagine being able to concentrate on learning if I am not feeling well. Not to mention, if you stay home and rest, you will most likely get well sooner and be back to class performing at your best more quickly.

Well said Shiva!

[crimgoddess]

Meh, like I said I have no trouble being called inconsiderate. My lack of consideration meant that I have graduated undergrad in the honours programwith a high average,and have receivedeven higher grades in my graduate courses. I am generally sick once or twice a month, so missing class that much is just not an option I am willing to entertain.


I'm sure my professors don't expect me to come in sick- but they also expect me to keep up with course materials and what is discussed in class, which I don't feel I can adequately do without attending class myself. If you can do it, power to you, by all means stay home- but I feel that I am doing myself a disservice. The profmay not expect it of me but I expect it of myself.


That, and to miss an exam or assignment, I am sure as hell not willing to wait in the clinic for 3-5 hours to 'possibly' get a note if my symptoms are deemed severe enough. By then class or the exam could have been over anyway.


*amber*

[tshell]

I think depending on what the person has then they should stay home. For instance. My BOSS came in to work about a year and a half ago with the SV! Boy was I PISSED! I literally followed him around with a can of Lysol.! That was inconsiderate. Then this year he has the flu! Coughing, stuffy nose and fever. So he comes in anyhow. This man has no CLUE onhow to cover his mouth when he coughs, and he likes to come to your desk to "chat" with you about work while he is hacking his fool head off. 3 people got sick a couple of days later after that incident. I have the congested cough that is going around right now and I am at work. BUT I cough into my shirt, I stay at my desk, and before I leave for the day I wipe my entire desk down with Clorox Wipes. I constantly use my Purell on my hands. I don't want to spread this nasty thing to anyone but being a single mom I have to work or I don't get paid.


tshell

[californiagirl]

I have asthma, so a bad cold or respiratory illness can make me pretty sick!!! It is inconsiderate for reasons like this one and that there may be people around with suppressed immune systems. It is just plain rude. If you ABSOLUTELY have to work (which I did when a single mom), then at least do everything you can to NOT spread the germs, ya know?? I agree with TSHELL--sounds like you'll stay pretty healthy even though idiots are exposing you to their illnesses.[img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]

[stella9]

Amber,


Putting yourself first is one thing. Doing so at the expense of others is another. You have presented your argument. While you think they are valid, from a reasoning standpoint they are not AND you would not win your case in a court of law.


The me first attitude is pretty sad. After college, I worked for one of the highest power brokerage firms in the country and I witnessed "me first" people first hand. They are not at the top of their game now. It does not last long in the real world.


Stella

[shiva]

I think I would rather bethought of asa considerate person who might not have graduated from the top of my class than an inconsiderate person who graduated with honors. In the end, which matters more?


Amber, When you joined the board I thought you to be a lot like me. With a tell it like it is attitude andthe urgeto help enforce people's inner strength here. However, lately it comes across as being self rightous. If you are really trying to help people look at things from another perspective and offer strength, that's cool. But, if you are trying to make yourself feel better by pointing out the short comings of others, then maybe you should do get that satisfaction some other way.


Back to the topic at hand, Panzicatink, I don't blame you at all for being upset. I would have been upset as well. During Influenza season, the most important thing health professionals will tellthe publicis 1) Wash your hands and 2)STAY IN WHEN YOU ARE SICK. That's just common sense. Meanwhile, just make sure you are taking the best care of yourself possible. Take a really good vitamin and maybe some immune boosting supplements. Drink plenty of water. Get plenty of rest. And try not to stress.

[panzicatink]

thank you sooo very much everyone for your help and your comments. i just love how i can come home from a bad day and be able to talk with you guys!!!! it helps so very much!! thanks again everyone, i seriously appriciate everything you guys are wonderfull support

[japa]

I am trying to consider this issue. I have gone any and all places with a cold (i.e. a bit of coughing, some sneezing, runny nose). I would go and take my exams like that because many times professors would suggest that if you missed an exam, the make up exam would be much, much harder. In my early twenties, I had a job where Tuesdays were a busy day, so people came in sick because if you didn't, thenother workerswould have to stay until midnight. The work had to be finished that day b/c it was time sensitive.


Hasn't everyone gone to a class or work or somewhere with a cold? You all aren't talking about that, are you?


Now see, amber has said she gets sick once or twice a month. I, on the other hand, am rarely sick. So I just don't know what I would do about my graduate classes if I were sick a couple times a month, and I stayed home from class. That would make a serious dent in my studies, and professors would not be pleased. I would miss out on a lot. Maybe we also have to consider that amber says she has motion sickness often due to an ear problem, so maybe she vomits more frequently than some of the rest of us emets.


In previous threads, I have spoken out quite vehemently about staying home when you are sick. Some people countered my opinion with the idea that sometimes you just need to go out. And they cited how they get anxious and are nauseous a lot and therefore they can't stay home everytime they are ill like that.


Then I realized that I was talking about stomach viruses in which you are ill every so often, and I know that I have seen people come out in the active v* stage of a stomach virus or food poisoning. This is when I think that people should stay home. If you are multiple times v*, and you go out to school or work, that just seems counterproductive. Doesn't make sense to me. Of course, I am an emetophobe, so that colors this opinion.


Yet, I also hold the same opinon about when someone has a fever. I really think that fevers are a sign of more serious things like influenza. I guess they could also just be a sinus infection or something, and I don't think that those are all that easy to catch from someone else.


I don't know. Aren't there grey areas in being sick? Don't we all just have to use our judgment about when we might be exposing people to something quite serious? Do people here stay home for each and every cold?


It would be nice to think that we are never exposing anyone to anything, but sometimes we could even be carriers of something, couldn't we? And not even know that we were exposing someone to an illness?


And there is also the issue that if you do get sick, you can blame it on that person that came in with a cold three days ago and sat in the cubicle next to you. But you're really just conjecturing about why you got sick. There is really no way to know from where you acquired something.


I hadn't had a cold for about three years, and then I caught onelast November. I was like, what??? Where did this come from? No one I was around had a cold. I had been going to all of the same places I had gone for the last three years: school, stores, out to eat, wherever, so why now did I finally catch something? Guess it was a new virus my body hadn't encountered yet, but there would be no way to know how I encountered it.


Anyway, as emets, we want certainties surrounding illnesses, how we catch them. We think we can do x, y, z, and we won't get sick. But illness is about uncertainty really, and there are going to be gray areas when people need to leave the house to go to work or school when they are sick. Edited by: japa

[crimgoddess]

I think I would rather bethought of asa considerate person who might not have graduated from the top of my class than an inconsiderate person who graduated with honors. In the end, which matters more?


Amber, When you joined the board I thought you to be a lot like me. With a tell it like it is attitude andthe urgeto help enforce people's inner strength here. However, lately it comes across as being self rightous. If you are really trying to help people look at things from another perspective and offer strength, that's cool. But, if you are trying to make yourself feel better by pointing out the short comings of others, then maybe you should do get that satisfaction some other way.


Back to the topic at hand, Panzicatink, I don't blame you at all for being upset. I would have been upset as well. During Influenza season, the most important thing health professionals will tellthe publicis 1) Wash your hands and 2)STAY IN WHEN YOU ARE SICK. That's just common sense. Meanwhile, just make sure you are taking the best care of yourself possible. Take a really good vitamin and maybe some immune boosting supplements. Drink plenty of water. Get plenty of rest. And try not to stress.

My point was definitely not to put myself above others in terms of "I'm right, you're wrong"- Did I say that if you stayed home when you were sick you were somehow inadequate? No, in fact, if you can do that, power to you. I think it's somewhat self righteous to assume that because you are able to stay home when you are sick and still do well in school that automatically I would be able to as well. As for what people in my graduating class or current cohort think of me- no one has really commented or cared thusfar about my coming to school sick- probably because a great deal of them do the same (our grad lounge can at times look like the waitingroom at a clinic). As for whether they find me considerate or inconsiderate- I don't care much really. I'm at school to get an education, not necessarily to make friends. I have made some great friends at school so far- but if someone chooses not to be my friend for this reason, no skin off my back.


AS Japa mentioned- I DO get sick more than the average person- once or twice a month (some are better than others)I'll get a cold, a high fever (not necessarily accompagnied by vomitting- just a bit of dizziness), bad motionsickness (where I'll feel nauseous for a few hours after I get out of the car/bus), or something like strep. It doesn't necessarily mean that I will vomit- and I would even argue that being out of the house makes that less likely to happen because if I am occupied it tends not to occur. If I stayed home everytime I was symptomatic I would miss approximately a quarter of my classes, which I find unacceptable. As I previously mentioned, I tell the people I sit with that I'm not well, and they always have the option to move.


I'm not looking for an argument that will stand up in a court of law- I'm just doing what I think I need to do to keep up with my studies and do well.


Edited to add- It's somewhat insulting that Stella, you are implying that because I put myself first when it comes to my education I do so in other aspects of my life as well. I may be a 'me first' person when it comes to going to class, but I also put in 10+ hours of volunteer work a week with two different organizations. This is probably part of the reason why I am so sick all the time, because the work involved can be physically and emotionally taxing, which I'm sure isn't good for the immune system. Just because I head to class when I am ill (and I might add- NOT always contagious) it doesn't mean that I automatically always put myself first at the expense of others. In this situation, where so much is at stake, I feel as though I have to.


*amber*<edited><editID>crimgoddess</editID>

[japa]

You know what? It's really true that crim never said that what she does is right for anyone else. In all the posts, she was speaking for herself and what she needs to do to excel at school.


I think She was just saying that it's not always practical for her to stay home for every illness. I don't think that she was trying to make anyone else feel wrong or to insult anyone else.


But now she has been insulted at least three times in this thread. I don't know what to make of that.

[peachykeen]

I've been reading this thread for the last little bit, and I guess I can
see both sides. I agree that it's just not practical to stay home for
EVERY illness that strikes. For example, if I kept the kids in every
time they had a cold we'd never leave the house. I've had the
unfortunate experience of having to fly cross-country when I was
very ill, I ended up having strep, and ear infection, a sinus infection,
and bronchitis. But I had no choice in the matter, I had to go even
though I wanted nothing more than to stay in bed. While I'm not
thrilled to see someone visibly ill with a cold-type illness out and
about I can understand that in life sometimes you have to do things
that you don't necessarily want to. That said......I think there are
circumstances that the responsible thing to do is to stay home. If
your partner and/or kids have been passing a sv around for a week,
then you wake up with n*, v*, or d*, you can be pretty darn sure
you've got the sv as well, and you should stay home. The same with
influneza. I think it comes down to what I expect from other people
as well. Would I appreciate you v*ing next to me, or hacking a lung,
increasing my risk of becoming ill? No way, and really, I think it's
the responsible thing to try to stop the spread of things like this. I
know these things aren't foolproof, but there are precautions that can
be taken, kwim?

I think I'm sensitive to this because my mom just took chemo
recently. Her immune system was severly compromised, to the point
that she could hardly leave the house. And if she had gone to the
grocery and picked up influenza because someone went out and
exposed half the town it could have had disasterous results. I'm
having a hard time putting it to words, because obviously this has
become a heated topic, but I don't think the line of stay home/go out
is very fine. There are obvious times IMO when one should just stay
home. If you're so ill you can't hold down food, or are just too ill to
function, do yourself and I a favor and stay home, kwim?

[shiva]

Japa,


You are right. She didn't insult anyone directly. However I think it is more the "tone" of some threads. They tend to come across in a condescending manner, which actually can be insulting in a way.


Think about it... Panz.. was having a bad day and wanted to come on here and vent about being subjected to germs and instead of having validation and understanding she gets excuses for why this person should feel free to spread their ickies. I am certain that didn't help her feel any better. It's not just the message that some people have no choice and have to go out when they are sick. It's the delivery of that message that I think made others defensive.


Not to mention, looking back I realized that Crim made the post about herself before anyone else did. No one called her inconsiderate until she herself did and said she could care less. And Crim did reference to herself as being a me first person before anyone else did.


Anyway.. I hate when this happens on here. I have always said that I love that everyone on here has such diverse opinions and are at such different levels in their treatment and "illness" (if you could call it that I think we should all try to do our best to help one another here. Again.. Amber, if you are trying to help people see another side, that's awesome. We need more from that side of the spectrum here. But, maybe looking back and reading some of your threads would bring you some insight to why so many people were so ready to behave defensively here.


Either way... I guess we've concluded that most people would prefer that people avoid public places when they are sick (outside of the common cold and whatnot). But, some people cannot help themselves and have to go out. People are going to have differences in opinion about subjects such as this one and that what makes us all unique and different.


Man, I remember back around the presidential election. Some words were really flying then. But to tell ya the truth, I don't remember at all who offended me or my beliefs. I do remember being called a "tree-hugger" and wondering to myself "What's so bad about that?" But, that's about jist of it. Hopefully we will all just move on from this little disturbance as well

[crimgoddess]

Not to harp- although I do feel somewhat entitled to in this case- the reason why I mentioned that if people wanted to believe I was inconsiderate it's fine with me was in response to Nikki's post where she stated &lt;&lt;&lt;But when you have something that can put a lot of your fellow classmates totally out of commission for a few days, it's inconsiderate. They also value their education and don't appreciate being made ill by those less considerate.&gt;&gt;&gt; If people here who do not know me in 'real life' believe me to be inconsiderate based on this one facet of my life so be it. That really doesn't bother me all that much.


But, for someone to insinuate that I'm always a 'me first' person struck me as unfair. Yes, when it comes to my education, you're damned straight I'm going to put myself first. But that is only one aspect of my life- don't assume that you know me, or can make a judgement call about if or how I am going to function in the real world based on this one fact.


As for Paz's original post- I did address it in my original post on this subject. The reason why I felt the need to keep posting was because I felt the need to defend myself- or at least explain where I was coming from. If you findmy 'tone' condescending, that is your prerogative- I don't intend to come off that way. It's funny, when people agree with you there is never a problem- but the moment they disagree with you, all of a sudden you are this, that, and the other. Maybe the 'tone' of some of the other posts on this subject is what put me on the defensive. How is one supposed to take the insinuation that they are selfish and wont succeed in the 'real world'? Or that I come here to get my rocks off by putting down others?


&lt;&lt;Either way... I guess we've concluded that most people would prefer that people avoid public places when they are sick (outside of the common cold and whatnot). But, some people cannot help themselves and have to go out. People are going to have differences in opinion about subjects such as this one and that what makes us all unique and different.&gt;&gt;


Seems like fitting words by which to end this disagreement.


*amber*

[65roses]

I've always found amber's post to be a little on the offensive side. Maybe she is a big fish in a small pond with this site? I can't pinpoint it,the postsjust rub me the wrong way and shiva hit the nail on the head.


I had to stop going to regular school because of this reason. I have a compromised immune system and the flu, cold, or stomach virus can be a very sticky situation.

[japa]

I do understand the point that you make about the tones of posts, and that if the tone is condescending, that can also be insulting, as much as a direct insult.


However, the funny thing with me personally is that there are a couple of posters on the board whose posts, in my opinion, do have a condescending tone. I don't ever say anything about it because it may just be my opinion and something that I am reading into the posts because I have a personal issue with it. So I read condescenion into entirely different posts/posters than seems to be the general opinon here (since amber has certainly been singled out).


As a general group, the posts that I find the most arrogant and condescending are the ones that are about how cleanan emetis and how dirty so and so is. They just seem to have such a superior and judgmental tone. Sometimes I say something in those; sometimes I don't bother because it looks to me as though the majority of people partake of the cleanliness routines, and that some believe that it makes them superior to other people.


So I am not entirely sure where I am going with this except to say that although amber is being singled out for condescencion in some people's opinon, if it were up to me to make a call on that, I'd be singling out some other people. But I don't really want to do that.

Japa,


You are right. She didn't insult anyone directly. However I think it is more the "tone" of some threads. They tend to come across in a condescending manner, which actually can be insulting in a way.

Edited by: japa

[japa]

I guess the other thing to think about is that panzinatink said "thanks" and that she did feel supported.

[californiagirl]

I've always found amber's post to be a little on the offensive side. Maybe she is a big fish in a small pond with this site? I can't pinpoint it,the postsjust rub me the wrong way and shiva hit the nail on the head.


I had to stop going to regular school because of this reason. I have a compromised immune system and the flu, cold, or stomach virus can be a very sticky situation.

Edited by: californiagirl

[s_snow]

Well, i think if you sick, stay at home. Not because of others, just because of you- you will fil better.

[babygap5]

We all at one time or another, have had to make a choice, stay home, or go to work/school. This has been discussed WAY TO MUCH, everyone has differing opinions. You have the inconsiderate coworker who brings their sick kid to work to spite his wife, you have the inconsiderate coworker who feels the need to share to the entire office how many times he/she v* last night. The bottom line is, people do things for their own reasons. I have a cold at the moment but I HAD to go to work because I have a limited amount of sick days and I would like to save them for a more severe illness. When I was in college, I never missed class unless I was at death's door (which happened once) because if I missed just 1 class, it would set me back by alot. Just because I can function while I'm sick, doesn't necessarily mean I'm contaminating the entire office either. I'm not walking around coughing and sneezing on everything. In fact, I walk around w/ my travel sized purell and purell all the common surfaces after I touch them.I agree w/ Crim, you have to do what you have to do to survive, and as long as she's not blowing her nose on people if she's sick, give her a break.