OT- Need reassurance on a political topic

**crimgoddess** · 05-01-2006, 07:02 PM

It is not my intention to start a flamewar, but the MODERATOR of a list I belong to sent this to the group, and I was pretty overwhelmed by the ignorance and hatred that was displayed. I honestly had to read it twice to make sure that I got it right- and this was sent from someone who claims that they are a hard core liberal and that everything conservative is bad.

Anyway, here it is:
<DIV>WASHINGTON (AFP) Immigrants' rights advocates, elated by the resounding success of Monday's "National Day of Action," which drew the backing of hundreds of thousands of protesters across the United States, now are planning a national boycott which they hope will have an even greater resonance.
Organizers are planning the May 1 "Great American Boycott," urging illegal immigrants -- who cannot vote and who have only limited political power -- to flex their economic muscle.
Protesters are being urged to refrain from shopping, and to stay away from school and work.

You should take a moment to let that sink in.

This is a movement orchestrated by people who entered the US illegally, and then want to scream about their "rights." WHAT RIGHTS? YOU DON'T EVEN BELONG HERE!

Let's take a look at some of the many benefits that illegal aliens have blessed our great country with: Street gangs, graffiti, drugs, skyrocketing healthcare, depreciation of property value, illiteracy. The list could go on. What they actually have to offer (cheap labor) pales to what they have?given our country to deal with. I'll take expensive vegetables over expensive healthcare any day!

And now, like terrorists, they are going to attack our economy -- the one entity that makes our nation stand out from all the others. The backbone of our nation. The country they came to like locusts so they could reap the benefits is now the focus of their boycott. You've seen it on TV: Marching on our American streets waving their Mexican flags, boldly showing that they can be more racist than who they accuse of, and yet the obvious is totally oblivious to them......

IF YOU'VE GOT IT SO BAD HERE, THEN LEAVE!!!

To all the real Americans, you can do one small thing on May 1st, 2006. It won't be racist, nor will it be violent. It will not be boastful, arrogant, selfish, nor distasteful. It will not be any of those things that our "guests" have already displayed. What it will do is nullify a movement.

All you have to do is buy something on May 1st. Make up for what they will try to take away. It doesn't have to be a new car or house (unless you were already planning to get one). It simply needs to be a day of trading.

Hold off grocery buying until May 1st.
Take your wife out to eat that night.
Get the kids pizza, hamburgers, whatever!
Make several trips to the convenience store.
Buy your meals at work.
Fill up your tank.
Shop for clothes, furniture, outdoor equipment.
If it needs to be bought, BUY IT MAY 1st!

Those are just a few suggestions. We're not asking you to spend your inheritance that day, but just to spend more than you?normally would. Even if it's only a few dollars, this will help soften the blow that the Mexicans will try to inflict on our economy that day. It sounds trivial at first, but if this idea gets around, what the Mexicans set out to do will fail.

Forward at will.....
If you can read this, thank a teacher and if it's in English, thank a soldier!</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>So...apparently illegal mexican immigrants are the reasons for gang activity, crime, and the complete downfall of the American economy. Can you say scapegoat? it's funny how people will complain about illegal immigrants stealing their jobs, but don't really mind when they are cleaning their house, watching their kids, putting the mints on their pillow or making the floors in the off

**harmonygirl72** · 05-01-2006, 07:38 PM

Ugh, that is so racist, it sickens me. No, not all Americans think like that, but it is sad that even any of them do. Have you seen the movie "A Day without a Mexican"? It was great...funny, but with some social commentary on that issue.

Mary

**babygap5** · 05-01-2006, 08:13 PM

This is a very sore subject for me. What gets me so angry, and I have to admit, I agree w/ the person who wrote it,why should the illegals get any rights?? If I as an american, were to illegally enter their country would I get any rights? I don't understand why they don't get green cards or visas and do it the legal way. I don't get why people want to protect them. As far as I'm concerend, they dont deserve any of the priviledges of being a US citizen. They don't pay taxes, they get healthcare for free, their kids get the benefit of a free eductaion. It isn't right. I make a great salary, until more than 45% of my paycheck is taken out for taxes and I have to pay for my ownmedical benefits.My downstairs neighbors are illegal, and they drive a mercedes, have leather furniture, a big screen tv, and whatever jobs they work, uncle sam doesn't collect. How can anyone think that is fair when I'm struggling just to feed my cats??

I don't agree with the statement about the gangs, etc., I think that is a bit much, but, if they want to get the rights, they should become citizens or apply for the proper documentation to stay legally. I know several gardeners who struggled to be able to get their families here in stages, but they are all LEGAL. Did it ever occur to any of these people who are fighting for their rights, that maybe if these 12 million plus illegal immigrants in the US alone were legal, we as a society wouldn't be taxed as much? I hope I don't offend anyone, but that is my opinion. Thanks all for listening and having an open mind to my opinion.

**dita** · 05-01-2006, 08:24 PM

I'm totally with you BabyGap...........couldn't have said it better myself.

**Girlygirl1980s** · 05-01-2006, 08:25 PM

I also agree with Babygap5 regarding:

"They don't pay taxes, they get healthcare for free, their kids get the benefit of a free eductaion. It isn't right. I make a great salary, until more than 45% of my paycheck is taken out for taxes and I have to pay for my ownmedical benefits."

I have a super hard time making ends meet lately, and if my employer didn't just start to pay for 1/2 of myhealth insurance, I would have had to cancel my health insurance all toghether. It is not fair that people can just sit around, not work, get free health insurance, and get all their bills paid, while hard-working people like myself struggle, and part of my paycheck goes towards supporting these people!

**babygap5** · 05-01-2006, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the support Mandi, at least someone agrees with me. I have a feeling this is going to be one of those "controversial" topics, lol.

**dita** · 05-01-2006, 08:34 PM

No prob! and yeah, it is going to be controversial........in my state, they're making a big deal about the "no work, no shop" protest going on today...

**californiagirl** · 05-01-2006, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by babygap5

This is a very sore subject for me. What gets me so angry, and I have to admit, I agree w/ the person who wrote it,why should the illegals get any rights?? If I as an american, were to illegally enter their country would I get any rights? I don't understand why they don't get green cards or visas and do it the legal way. I don't get why people want to protect them. As far as I'm concerend, they dont deserve any of the priviledges of being a US citizen. They don't pay taxes, they get healthcare for free, their kids get the benefit of a free eductaion. It isn't right. I make a great salary, until more than 45% of my paycheck is taken out for taxes and I have to pay for my ownmedical benefits.My downstairs neighbors are illegal, and they drive a mercedes, have leather furniture, a big screen tv, and whatever jobs they work, uncle sam doesn't collect. How can anyone think that is fair when I'm struggling just to feed my cats??

Couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

I could add more to this, but I'd start a war on here.Edited by: californiagirl

**crimgoddess** · 05-01-2006, 08:58 PM

Since when do they get free healthcare? Someone explain this one to me, because last time I checked this wasn't true, or only a half-truth. I think that a lot of misinformation about illegal immigrants is circulating in order to strengthen the political right- the idea that they all get free rides, don't have to work, etc. They actually get taken advantage of economically by several large companies who pay them almost slave wages under the table so they won't have to pay a legal citizen minimum wage (which is only above a slave wage IMO). These are the real people that, if this issue is problematic to you, you should protest against. By shopping to excess today at Walmartand other places guilty of this, you are just putting more money into the greedy hands of the facilitators.

Most illegals I have had contact with are scared to even go to a doctor or hospital for fear that they will be deported. For me, the healthcare issue in the United States should NOT be blamed on illegals, but rather your own government. You have a for-profit system- plain and simple. If all illegals stopped going to hospitals altogether, it would not mean that you would magically have health coverage, or your health coverage would improve. The likely outcome would be the government and HMO's pocketing the difference. I don't think ANYONE, regardless of country of origin, should be without healthcare. That is why I think universal healthcare is the only humane option. However, the system in the states, as it is now, is so profitable that I doubt this would even happen. This is why Canada has a shortage of Doctors and Nurses- since we have a universal system where a person in the field of healthcare can only make so much, they get their degrees here and then move to the US to work. My boyfriend worked as a nurse in California- he got 10$ more an hour American+overtime at every shift. Doctors in the US can make hundreds of thousands more than they would in Canada.

Don't fault the people for the way the system is organized, or for the companies which facilitateand encourage this.

*amber*

**tiffanator** · 05-01-2006, 08:59 PM

I do not have a problem with anyone immigrating to our country in search of a better life. However, do so LEGALLY. There is one word that people keep over looking in the whole argument and that is ILLEGAL. These people are in our contry illegally, so just by being here they are breaking the law. I do not have any problems with legal US citizens who are Mexican, African, Australian, Canadian, Lithuanian or whatever, because, in a sense, everyone who is in the United States who is not Native American (Indian) is basically an immigrant. My problem is when these people come to our country illegally and then demand the same rights as those who are here legally, feed off of our generosity, take a mile when we give an inch, and demand that we learn their language. How about we get together 20,000 Americans andgo illegally into Mexico, get jobs, work a while, then march in the streets and demand equal rights of other Mexican citizens, do you really think that the Mexican government would give us free healthcare, free education, change all of their signs to Spanish and American, and use that government funded education to teach us to speak Spanish? I don't think they would, we would either be deported, or laughed at. I think the US has given the illegals enough in that we haven't deported them, and that goes for ANY illegal.

Yes, there are lots of jobs that Americans refuse to take, we see that everyday with bums sitting on the side of the road begging for money. Yes, this country, at the current time, does needpeople willing to work the lower endjobs, becauseAmericans have such a snot nosed, high and mighty, elitist attitude thatmany won't work a job unless it pays 30K a year. At least the Mexicans are willing to work, and work dang hard, but please, go through the right channels to become a citizen and I'll give you all the work you can handle. Yes it is a complicated and drawn out process to become a citizen, but somehow thousands of immigrants from all over the world do it every year.

Now... for the important question... whose soapbox is this and how did I get up here? *Climbs down from soapbox, tucks tail between legsand goes back to hide in the corner*

**babygap5** · 05-01-2006, 09:07 PM

I personally know for a fact that they get the healthcare for free because of my downstairs neighbors. They've told me. In fact, the reason they haven't gotten deported is because they had a baby who is a citizen. So, when one of them had to have emergency surgery to remove a blockage from their intestine, the $18k bill was paid by a governmental agency and he didn't owe anything. And because their baby is a citizen, all the $$ it cost to have the baby plus the kids care is free courtesy of the dept. of welfare. Welcome to America!!

Tell me where is the fairness??Edited by: babygap5

**dita** · 05-01-2006, 09:08 PM

I'm very glad to know that I'm not the only person who feels this way!

**crimgoddess** · 05-01-2006, 09:12 PM

I really don't get the whole forcing English on people....In Canada we have two official languages, and when people immigrate here (legally or illegally) we don't force them to learn one of them. Some of my friend's parents have been here for decades and still do not know English or French- it makes certain situations a bit problematic, but our government is pretty good at accomodating their language of choice. In some countries there are more than one language- hell, in Italy there are so many variations of the dialect that the language that is spoken in the North is completely incomprehensible to people from the South.

I think it would make a lot of sense to make Spanish a second official language in the US- considering the origins of the country and HOW english became the official language, it seems almost arrogant to me to then say "learn english or get out".

*amber*

**dita** · 05-01-2006, 09:15 PM

Spanish ison everything already, so it basically is the second language--just not "officially"--same difference

**crimgoddess** · 05-01-2006, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by babygap5

I personally know for a fact that they get the healthcare for free because of my downstairs neighbors. They've told me. In fact, the reason they haven't gotten deported is because they had a baby who is a citizen. So, when one of them had to have emergency surgery to remove a blockage from their intestine, the $18k bill was paid by a governmental agency and he didn't owe anything. And because their baby is a citizen, all the $$ it cost to have the baby plus the kids care is free courtesy of the dept. of welfare. Welcome to America!!

Tell me where is the fairness??

I don't think it's fair that ANYONE has to pay for emergency surgery or the birth of a child. To me it's not the case of "well, so-and-so got this and I didn't", but rather that it's an injustice that ANYONE has to pay for this. That is really the government's fault IMO.

*amber*

**csjones** · 05-01-2006, 09:19 PM

Okay, that is absolutely disgusting. Unfortunately, bigotry and ignorance seem to be prevailing attitudes in this country today. I think you're right to feel disturbed by that email.

**babygap5** · 05-01-2006, 09:28 PM

Yes, it isn't fair that anyone should have to pay for medical care, but in the US we do. And the fact that the illegal's get it for free when the citizens of the country have to pay, is the problem. Amber, do you think that if 20k US citizens went to Mexico or the Dominican Republic and demanded free health care and rights as illegals, do you think we would get it?

**mjewell** · 05-01-2006, 09:39 PM

As many other posters have said, I am not against immigration, just against doing it illegally. I don't understand why anyone would support illegal immigrants.Why can't immigrants just go through the proper channels and become a citizen?

I would be especially pissed off if I was an immigrant who went through the process to become a legalized citizen and then all these illegals start freaking out because all the sudden they might be faced with obeying the law. What's up with that??

I don't agree with this article (I got it via email) because it generalizes and singles out all Mexicans as criminals and illegal immigrants, when that simply is not the case. Many Mexicans and other foreigners have come to America with good intentions and have respected the laws and have contributed tothe country in a positive manner. I think that is to be applauded. But tell me - why should we applaud illegal entry? I just don't even understand what the other side of this issue is.

CAN ANYONE GIVE ME A GOOD REASON WHY WE SHOULD BE AGAINST FIGHTING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION??

**shiva** · 05-01-2006, 09:45 PM

I have to admit that I could not even read much of what has been posted above because I was getting upset and I do not have the time or energy to waste. I did want to say, HOWEVER...

America says.. Give us your tired, your poor, your hungry. We say that anyone who wants to immigrate here is more than welcome and we will help them have a better and free life in our country. Then we bitch when they come??? What the f***???

Do any of you have any idea what it is like for some of these people? Outside of the touristy bulls*** do any of you understand the s*** that goes on in Mexico? Do you know how poor and hungry these people are? They are humans for f***s sake. They DIE coming here, they DIE staying there. America says "Come on over" and then charges these people way too much money to stay with a visa. Where the f*** are they supposed to come up with the money to become legal? This takes time. f***, my fiance and his family went from El Salvadore to Mexico and then Mexico to Cali. They were illegal in Cali for about six years because they COULDN'T AFFORD TO BECOME LEGAL. We do not make it easy on them. f***, if you were a farmer and could get away with paying someone $20 a day to come work their asses off in your field, you would probably do it. This is the kind of work these people do, because to them it's better than home and it's feeding their families.

It's really sad when you think of it. These people have dreams of coming to this country that they imagine is an amazing place to live and then we make them our bitches and complain that they are here. I am sickened by my country. f*** the statue of liberty. We are hypocrites.

UGGGGG!

**babygap5** · 05-01-2006, 09:51 PM

These people know the realities of this country, don't try to make it like America is this vast land with magical opportunities. That was the feeling about 30 years ago. The people who come now do it so they can live tax free and have babies so the kids can become legal citizens and they can get what they can get out of this country and leave. And as far as the cost of becoming a citizen, I know several people who did it and it didn't cost that much. A family of 7 who immigrated the LEGAL way from Italy all got their citizinship w/ina few years of being in this country. They learned the language andhave voted in all the elections. They are the ones we should protect, they are CITIZENS. AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS COUNTRY AND THINK WE ARE HYPOCRITES, GET OUT!!

Sorry for being harsh, but, it's the samething w/ the illegals. If they don't like it, they shouldgo back to their own countries. People on this post are complaining because the people aren't making minimum wage, well, it's more than they were making in their own country, so why are they complaining.

**mjewell** · 05-01-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by shiva

I am sickened by my country. f*** the statue of liberty. We are hypocrites.

UGGGGG!

Every country has laws to protect its citizens. We have to deal with this issue somehow now before it gets out of control. I suppose you think we should let terrorists come in without legal documentation too?

Shiva, with all due respect, if you are sickened by this country perhaps you should move.

**sherbear** · 05-01-2006, 10:01 PM

I'm a little aprehensive to post, but here goes....

First, let me say that I disagree with the idea that ourcountry has to deal withstreet gangs, grafitti,drugs andilliteracy because of illegal immigrants. If they were all either deported or became legal citizens I know that these problems would not disappear..."scapegoats" indeed.

I also agree with putting SOME of the blame on all of the big (and small) corporations who pay these people next to nothing. They know exactly what they're doing and they know that it is wrong. I think they should be forced into taking ownership when it comes to this (and so many other things, but that's opening up a new can of worms).

Lastly, I do agree with babygap5, dita,halfoverthefur, californiagirl and tiffanatoron this one. They are here illegally. Period.

**shiva** · 05-01-2006, 10:06 PM

Trust me, I wish I could. Unfortunately, the way our law states, I cannot even MOVE to another city since I have "Shared Parenting" with my child's father.

The things that I appreciate and loved about our country are slowly dwindling away.

Did you realilze that the coast guard is actually supposed to let a set amount of illegal immigrants into our country each month? The government tells them to let them come in, and then suddenly we have a problem with it? I don't get it.

Maybe if our government made it easier for them to become legal they would.

It's extremely judgemental and ignorant to say that people from Mexico come here just to have babies for free and to live tax free. Do you have any idea what kind of lives they are leaving behind? Open your minds. Jesus Christ! Lemme guess.. All republican Bush supporters, huh?

**mommyof3** · 05-01-2006, 10:13 PM

What an interesting topic. I have to say, I honestly don't know where I stand on this. I live in an area with lots and lots of cherry and apple orchards and I know that none of them would get picked if it weren't for migrant workers. My dad was an immigrant. Legal, with a sponsoring family and my grandparents had work lined up. That's the beauty of this country, though, free speech and freedom of assembly!

One thing I do know is that this is why I stopped opening "forwards" and why forwards are banned at most of the online groups I belong to [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]. A lot of times people don't even know what they're forwarding. I'm going a little off-topic here, but when I used to read them I'd get those, "Forward this to everyone you know. If you delete this then you're 1) going to hell 2) not patriotic 3) going to have bad luck for the next gazillion years blah blah etc etc. I think email forwards are passive aggressive ways for cowards to slyly slip you their opinion without having to debate you in an open forum, face-to-face, point by point.

**aguerra29** · 05-01-2006, 10:17 PM

OMG. This issue infuriates me. You just don't even know. It has for years!

Being from Texas, I am so sick and tired of all the illegal immigrants. Yes it's great for maid services, lawn care, restaurants, and construction. My dad LEGALLLY immigrated to this country from Peru over 40 years ago. He has not become a citizen, but he pays his fair share of taxes and it a benefit to this society. When I got married almost 2 years ago, I wanted my family in Peru to come to witness the joyous union. My father offered to put up a $50K bond to ensure my family's return to Peru. My family had all of the required documents required by US law to prove they would not stay in this country. What did the US say to their request to VISIT - NO! Do you know why? because of all the illegal mexicans that come to this country everyday!

My dad fought for this country in Vietnam. HE was given a choice to go back to Peru or be drafted into the US Army. He chose to be drafted. My dad learned the language and speaks more proper english than I do.

Is it asking too much to learn the freaking language? I don't think so. Our founding fathers made a mistake in not declaring a national language. I get so sick of seeing everything in spanish and english and getting looks from the non-english speakers for help - as if I must speak spanish.

I am hispanic and am proud of my heritage. The whining by all of these illegals is sickening. WHy we tolerate it as a society is beyond my comprehension. I am all for a brick wall separating Mexico from the US with gun-toting border partol every 10 feet. We need a "No Vacancy" sign.

If we let this continue and give these people citisenship - we will all be outnumbered in a just a few years (they are all Catholic - don't you know) and slowly, but surely, they will vote in the people they want and our government will become as corrupt as all the governments in latin America - Venezuela anyone??

Crimgoddess - if the US keeps this up, I may be moving to your neck of the woods in Canada.

**shiva** · 05-01-2006, 10:27 PM

I also know (and am engaged to be married to). An amazing man who came here as a boy with his family and was enamored with this country. A boy who was in school and learning the language along with his sisters. One who grew to be the most amazing and compassionate person I have ever met in my life. He works 2 jobs to take care of my daughter and myself. He sacrafices everything for me. He wouldn't even marry me until he got his citizenship. He knows more about our country than I do. He is attending college, as did his sisters.. One who is a pediatrician and one who is a therapist who works with special children. His dad drives truck and still does not speak English and his mom is cute as hell when she speaks English. This whole family was here illegally for years before they could get the money together to get residency. All I am saying is that it is not black and white. Citizenship or becoming a resident takes time. It's not like they can just come here with the money and documentation to be legal right away.

I used to be ignorant, too. I am justthankful for my life's experiences because if I lived with the opinions of some people on this board as an adult, I would be really ashamed of my ignorance.

You're right. They are here illegally, and with regard to our nation's laws, that is not a good thing. But, then why not make it easier for them to become residents so that everyone can stop their bitching?

**aguerra29** · 05-01-2006, 10:30 PM

People from countries that you can't swim across the river to get here, actually have to apply for residency. You have to have a Visa, just to visit here. You don't get here, then figure out how to be legal. Yes, it is a long process, but it starts before you ever set foot on American soil. That is the LEGAL way. Bottom line!

**crimgoddess** · 05-01-2006, 10:32 PM

<<<<Crimgoddess - if the US keeps this up, I may be moving to your neck of the woods in Canada.>>>>

To be honest, if you are intolerant of people who don't know english, or feel as though they should in order to live in North America, you probably shouldn't come here. Where I live I am more likely to hear people speaking french, arabic, or hindi. And I love it. I love the fact that to be "canadian" you aren't forced to speak english, and that people are tolerant of diversity (for the most part- there are always abberations, but those close-minded bigoted people are usually looked down upon by the rest of us)

*amber*Edited by: crimgoddess

**shiva** · 05-01-2006, 10:39 PM

I think this thread gave me a sick headache...

Isn't that freaking ironic?

LOL!

**aguerra29** · 05-01-2006, 10:40 PM

Canada has two national languages - English and French. You are not "forced" to speak either language, but if you want to conduct business, it will be in one of those languages. I don't remember seeing any signs in Spanish or vietnamese or arabic,etc. the last time I was in Calgary. I know that except for the butt-ass cold temperatures, I really enjoyed my time in Canada.

I feel VERY strongly that if you want to come to America to partake of all the wonderful things we have to offer, you have to be willing to assimilate on some level. Not everyone needs to be the same, but there needs to be some common ground.(i.e. same language)

I digress.

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