Temporary Insanity?

[samara's on tv]

Me and my friend were discussing temporary insanity a few days ago and I wanted to know what you guys (Especially Amber/CrimGoddess) thinks about it. But here are my views on it.


So here's the situation we were discussing. Like is temporary insanity a reasonable excuse for killing someone. I said "Yes" IN SOME CASES. Like okay so say you are with someone and you get really pissed off and stab them RIGHT THEN and RIGHT THERE because you are just SO ANGRY. That can be temporary insanity, I would agree with that in a court of law. Same thing if you got angry and shot someone...RIGHT THEN and RIGHT THERE.


Now, some people claim temporary insanity after they strangle someone. I don't believe that you can go insane for enough time that it takes to strangle someone because you actually SEE Them dying before your eyes and you have many chances to stop what you are doing and think about it. Also I don't believe that like say something BAD happens to you TODAY that really pisses you off and then tomorrow you go and shoot that person. That's NOT Temporary insanity that's premeditated. Anyone who is going to pull that kind of sh*t is riding on a Twinkie defense.


So what do you guys think? Is there such a thing as temporary insanity? I mean I can totally see getting SO MAD for just like 10 seconds that you do something stupid and kill a person, but anything after that is NOT Temporary Insanity.


~Monica

[daffodil]

I don't know. I have done things in anger that I was ashamed of, but I don't know if I would call it temporary insanity. I think we are responsible for our actions no matter how upset we are. Some people have no concept of the consequences of their actions, and I guess most of them are labeled crazy, but for the average, relatively sane person, I don't buy temporary insanity.

[samara's on tv]

Well I know that I've been angry and said and done things I've regretted but I mean I've never HURT someone...scratch that I have punched a few people but I don't think I could get mad enough to kill. But I do see how it could happen, you know?


~Monica

[daffodil]

Yeah, I can see that. I have a temper, and have been tempted to throw something at my husband from time to time. If I am really mad, I'll go out back and throw stuff around, well out of the way of people. I think killing is a pretty deliberate act for the most part. Unless it is accidental, like kids playing with a gun or something.

[crimgoddess]

In terms of temporary lapses in judgement and allowing our emotions to take over- it happens to us ALL. What needs to be acknowledged, however, isthat it's easy to sit back and say "well, if so-and-so did this for so long he KNEW what he was doing"- it's easy to think with that perspective because A) you were raised with specific ideals/standards, which inevitably affect how you manage your emotions (also socio-cultural factors); B) pre-existing emotional problems, mental illness, and drug/alcohol use/abuse; C) gender.


When I did a placement in forensics at a mental health facility, my first "assignment" was to work with a man who comitted a very brutal crime and had no recollection of how it occured, and only vague impressions of the events which happened immediately before and after. After working with him, I was convinced that he was telling the truth- especially since he himself said that he deserved prison as a result ofhis actions and was suicidal- it was obvious that he was not taking this route to stay out of prison.


In some cases, selective amnesia can occur after committing a crime out of passion/anger because of your mind essentially trying to protect itself. It would be too hard to deal with the incident, so your mind blocks it out. It happens with victims of crimes as well.


But I digress.....I DO think that in many cases crimes are committed when the person is in such an emotional state that they can't think rationally. Everyone deals with their emotions differently- in a patriachal society such as ours, women are taught to cry when they are upset with something- men are taught to take out their aggressions physically. That is supposedly a sign of "strength".


As for time lapses- have you not heard distressing news, but then reached the peak of your anger a day or so afterwards? I know I have- by allowing something to fester within you without really dealing with it, it can make you ANGRIER and MORE FRUSTRATED than when you initially were in the situation. This is especially true since it is human nature to view others as responsible for any pain you encounter, as opposed to viewing how you may be equally culpable.


*amber*

[confusedgirl]

not to be too harsh, but there is never a reasonable excuse for killing someone. to me, killing someone is an unreasonable act that can't be justified. sure, someone may get really mad and do something in the moment that they regret, but killing someone is so extreme. I've hit people because of getting really mad.. but I know I did have the choice not to. I made the wrong choice, to take out my anger that way rather than removing myself from the situation and calming down. maybe some people have worse tempers then me, and would react in the moment by killing, rather than just hitting, someone.. but at the same time, I would think that they would know in their mind that they ARE killing... and just the fact that they went through with the act would mean they know what they're doing. But then again, my views may be biased, the only time I have ever heard the term "temporary insanity" be used by someone is by my (finally!) ex-boyfriend, who would say he got "temporary insanity" whenever he was upset, and he'd use that as an excuse to be a huge jerk to whomever he felt like.

[crimgoddess]

I didn't say that it was an "excuse" for killing someone- murder is never justified in my opinion, whether it is done by the state (or those acting on behalf of the state) or a citizen. I am not excusing their behaviour- I have studied to understand it. Understanding why something occurs and what factors could influence is different than justifying it.


And everyone's views are biased, so don't worry about it [img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]. It's an inevitable byproduct of being a human being. Show me someone who says that they can give an unbiased opinion on a social issue and I will show you a liar, lol


*amber*

[shiva]

I am not sure where I stand on this one. It depends on my mood. I do know that there have been moments in my life where I could have easily (for a split second) taken another person's life. (watching my dad beat my mom,having my husband hold a gun to my head in front of my child, enduring physical abuse from my brother well into my teens-like beating me with broom sticks ifI refused to make him dinner..etc.) Lucky for me that I am mentally stable enough to have never attempted such drastic measures.


But I don't feel it's always black and white. Not that I think there are justified murders... The thing is, sometimes the system fails people and I am sure that sometimes they feel they had no other options. What's the answer? Hell if I know... But, right now I am in a mood where I don't want to judge others for their actions. Tomorrow I could turn around and argue with much of what I've said here... That is how I am. It's not that I am confused, it's just that with certain topics I somehow feel passionately about total opposite ideas. I think that I am too open to both sides sometimes. I just figure unless it's me and I am going through it, how can I judge? How can I tell someone who's daughter was murdered that it isn't constructive to kill the person who killed her? If it were me, I would want him dead. On the other hand, how can I want someone dead for acting in such a way that so many people are capable?

[daffodil]

I agree with Shiva, in that it is not all black and white. What about if you are in an extremely physically abusive relationship, and you kill the other person because you are sure they will kill you if you don't? I think this would probably fall under the heading of self-defense, rather than temporary insanity, though.

[shiva]

daffodil,
I agree that in many cases it might fall under that category, but I think in most cases you have to have documentation of abuse to show a history or pattern. Now for myself I would never press charges on my ex when abuse would occur because our system doesn't really protect us against abuse and it sometimes just makes the situation worse because of this. I just wanted to give an example of a time where I was enraged enough that I think I could have taken another life. Not to say that it would be justified or is ever justified. But, as you reiterated... It is probably not too often a clear cut, black and white issue.

[samara's on tv]

On the subject of abuse, my father abused me emotionally and phsycially until I moved out of the house. He's now still a little emotionally abusive but since I don't live with him any more and he doesn't control when I come and go and what I do then it's easier to get along with him. All I have to say is that there have been times in my life, growing up, that abuse was apparent and no one did anything.


Example: I was at a parent teacher conference in 8th grade and I was crying because I knew I was in trouble and my dad all of a sudden backhands me across the face IN FRONT OF THE TEACHER!! Well she didn't do her job and go to a higher power to investigate, in fact she said I probably deserved it. I had many therapists growing up who agreed that at the very least my parents were severely emotionally abusive...but then they would go talk to my parents and ask them about it and then my parents would say I was lying and then I would get punished even more.


So sometimes reporting abuse really does nothing more then agrivate the aggressor. Now my parents wouldn't hit me as much as they would emotionally blackmail me, or tongue lash me, but emotional abuse is JUST as harmful as physical abuse if not more. There were times where I'd just get so angry with my father that I would think about picking up a knife. There were actually times when he would approach me to grab me and drag me somewhere, or move to hit me where I WOULD pick up some sort of weapon to protect myself. Knowing this I don't know if I could have actually KILLED my dad but I mean I can understand why or how someone could just go so blind with rage that it would happen.


~Monica

[daffodil]

Monica, in my opinion, retaliating in that sort of situation is self defense, and perfectly justified. If someone is hurting you, you have every right to defend yourself. I think we are talking about two different things now, killing/physically hurting in self defense, and killing because of some other reason, like someone making a person really angry, so they pick up a knife without thinking things through. I think we have all had moments where someone made us feel bad and we reacted in anger. I have barely restrained myself from lashing out physically a few times during an argument with a significant other. I think the difference is, whether or not a person is being seriously threatened, or just very angry.

[shiva]

I agree. It's 2 different situations. I apologize for getting this thread off subject a little. I was just trying to put myself in any situation imaginable where I would be able to do something to heinous in order to try to relate to people who murder. Fortunately for myself the only way I could imagine doing such a thing is from self defense.