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  1. #1

    Default Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Greetings fellow sufferers.

    I've been brewing this post for about a year now and it's probably time I jotted down my thoughts. This may well be a long-ish post and it's intended to help us all think much more deeply and systematically about this naughty little glitch of the human brain, in the hope of taking us closer to some kind of tolerable level. It is my hope that readers will find something of use and share it with others.

    **Mild warning - I don't like to abbreviate words as I think it gives them too much power and, I mean, if we can't stretch ourselves by reading a few words then are we even trying? Not that there's anything overtly graphic though

    Background (Usual obligatory background stuff - skip if necessary):

    I was around 6/7 years old when I was in the playground and saw a kid vomit. I'd never seen it before. Hard to imagine at that age, hu?. I remember it was red and that confused me. In fact, the whole damn experience confused me. But what I think kick started the phobia was the damned kids around him that were running around yelling "get back, don't go near him!" queue the cementing of a phobia - text book.

    From that point on (having no memory of vomitting myself) I would be utterly terrified if any kid felt sick near me. When I was 12 I was in Florida, my dad, his friend and his friend's son in the car. Son says to his dad that he feels sick, son sits by the window and throw up out of it while we're moving. Nothing TOO dramatic but I was so terrified I remember sort of curling up into a ball and speaking in tongues. Messed up!

    At 16 I had a nervous breakdown and the phobia - which was previously an incubating egg and only really manifested when someone else felt sick (as I had hardly ever thrown up AT ALL) - hatched and developed into a powerful full-time terror.

    I was terrified of eating meat, drinking alcohol, smoking pot, travelling in cars or busses or boats, sometimes eating in public and I felt nauseous constantly. Again, text book. I also had a kind of agoraphobia and never really ventured more than a few miles from my home.

    When I was 18 I met a bunch of people who were incredibly loving and passionate about spirituality and eastern philosophy. I began meditating and doing tai chi and in a couple of years I could basically live a normal life. Just about do all the stuff I previously mentioned that I couldn't do.

    This lasted until last year when, due to a LOT of financial pressure (quitting my job and then getting married!) it all came tumbling back. I'm now 34.

    Here's the recent kick in the balls. Previously, my haven was driving. I couldn't BE driven but I always drove. I drove everyone all the time and could do it forever. But my panic attacks and vomit paranoia found their way... into my driving.

    So here's where my recent studies and this story/chapter begins...

    You remember my meeting of the bunch of spiritual folk? Well, one of them is possibly the wisest person I have ever known and possibly will ever know. His understanding of the mind and the ego is of a level 99.999% of us will never happen across by accident. I dedicate much of my understanding to his influence.


    My new findings began with a meeting with him where we strolled by a pond and discussed the phobia at length. He said something about a buddhist principle (won't go into detail) around the issue of surrender. He said that it sounded like this was an issue with me.

    And then it hit me, that I'm fairly certain, that the core root of emetophobia is not vomit, but surrender! (or a resistance to it).

    Think about it. Vomiting is a thing that happens to the body, that we have varying degrees of control over, from a lot to none at all, and we resist it like hell.

    I myself have a TON of claustrophobia, which manifests in any and all forms of letting go and 'letting be' and surrendering. So...

    QUESTION: How many of you reading this also have similar surrender phobia off-shoots? Fear of being out of control? OCD? Claustrophobia? Agoraphobia? Don't like being drunk or being stoned or not being the 'driver'? Please answer this in a response! It will help with my theory.

    A model for revovery...

    PART ONE - PARANOIA/TRUST.

    Ok, so what emets suffer from is an abundance of the 'what ifs'. I call it the what-if impulse.

    - What if I get sick?
    - What will it feel like?
    - Can I handle it?
    - What if I CAN'T handle it?
    - What if someone sees me?
    - What if people make fun of me?
    - What if I can't find somewhere to be sick?

    The list is endless.

    Now, what is this? It's paranoia. What is paranoia? The opposite of trust. Think about that for a minute.

    Let's further define trust. Trust is the convenient taking for granted that X is ok, is fine, because we have some data that it's fine. Hence we can relax. Or maybe we have no data that it's a threat, so we can relax. Either way we have data that it's fine or no data that it's bad. A dog might have this toward people and just be relaxed when a total dog torturer walks in the room. But I've had experience of a dog that HATES women because it was a rescued dog that was hard done by a woman during its infancy. Bears its teeth at any women that comes near it!... Trust, see. Or lack thereof. Now it's paranoid. Well, around human women.

    This may be somewhat obvious ...? But, well, it's necessary to drill down in order to address panic attacks before they happen and build a system of recovery...

    PART TWO - FROM ALWAYS TO SOMETIMES TO NEVER.

    So the same friend above pointed out that I said that I "always" panic when I do X. But in the same conversation I had said that I didn't panic at one point. So he corrected that my linguistic programming there was reinforcing my phobia. I should rather say that I "sometimes" panic when I do X (be that driving, eating, socialising etc.)

    This is important to tell ourselves so we have an answer to our 'what if' impulse.

    What if I panic? - I always panic >> This changes to 'I usually panic'. With some practise we can progress it to 'sometimes'.

    PART THREE - CONTROLLED PANIC EXPOSURE

    Ok, so to manage panic levels and start bringing back normality to certain daily tasks we need to practise and build up our trust bank.

    This is fairly simple. There are two things we tend to do when not doing all this deliberately:

    1. Do a task, have a major panic attack and then add that task to our list of DON'Ts, or to be more specifically, our 'always panic' list.
    2. Do a task and don't have a major panic. This task is then on our trust list.

    So let's try this. Avoid tasks that are FULL ON and will likely trigger a panic and start with easy ones for a while. Bring a few mental crutches such as the bottle of water, the friend who we trust, the gum, the peppermint, the ginger, the antacid etc. and do the lesser of the tasks. The easier ones.

    Do these until we can say that we sometimes or rarely panic. Then move on to the next thing. Start to slowly drop the mental crutches as your trust grows. Start to transfer all the major ones from the 'always panic' pile and into the 'rarely panic' pile. This will take time and deliberate effort.

    All the while, add the following truth to your "I didn't panic that time!" trust evidence... I didn't vomit. That's one that MANY of us here can and should add to our trust bank. The thing we're afraid of never happens anyway! Consistently! And if... if (very hypothetically here) it did... well, that's a ratio of panic to manifestation of panic of about 10000000:1 - not very much worth realistically panicking about.

    Conclusion.

    I don't think we're ultimately emetophobes, I think we're let-go-ophobes. We fear allowing things to happen. We don't trust the universe is safe.

    One of the people I met (as mentioned above) was a lady that was like our oracle. Everyone (even the wise chap I mentioned earlier) would go to her for council. She was a natural born therapist and when she finally did go for her master's degree in psychotherapy (having already counselled people for years without training), her course tutor described her as a genius.

    So I was about 18/19 and was having a lot of panics and fear. I went to her one day and said that I didn't know whether the fear was my natural state and any peace I felt was an abnormality. Or was it vice versa? I had no idea. She asked me to sit down, close my eyes. She talked me through this very tranquil meditation. Eventually she brought me out of it. With my eyes still closed she asked me how I felt. I had strange and peaceful visions of flying - this I explained to her in a sort of sleepy daze. I told her I felt very relaxed. There was a pause.

    "This," she said "this is your natural state."

    Good luck folks. Would love some feedback! (sorry it was so long, been knocking around inside my head for ages!)

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by andySIW View Post
    Greetings fellow sufferers.

    I don't think we're ultimately emetophobes, I think we're let-go-ophobes. We fear allowing things to happen. We don't trust the universe is safe.




    This, this is exactly how I feel.

    This is an awesome helpful and insightful post. I found it really interesting. Thank you for sharing it
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Yes, thank you for sharing this. All the best to you.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    This is interesting, and I too agree with the 'letgoophophobes' idea - we don't like to think we cannot control our body, for fear our mind will shut down or for whatever reason. Its actually quite obvious when you think about the act of vomiting itself. I mean, for the times I have vomited in my life, I do not actually remember what I was thinking throughout the act. I remember before and after, but not during. THAT I think, is what I fear - the emptiness and complete release of mental and physical control.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Yeah, that's an interesting point. Emetophobia is an existential philosophical error. It's a fear of what MIGHT (emphasis) happen, then a dwelling on what did happen once, often many years ago and hasn't happened since.

    I think there is a link between creativity and such mental illnesses - our brain literally fantasises about what might happen, and also dwells on the past. Never here in the present.

    This is why I strongly advocate eastern philosophy as the main path for sufferers.

    Thanks everyone, glad you may have found it useful.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Existential is the word I was looking for! Spot on

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Thanks for the long and detailed post. I can really relate to your way of thinking. For me it was a little different but in many ways very similar. I'm pretty well past the phobia now, but was affected for many years.

    Possibly I am a 'letgoophobe,' but that wouldn't explain some of my past problems. I think I am phobic against failing and disappointing people I care about; more than 'letting go.'

    Really can relate to the Trust aspect of it. I'm also one who has a very high natural resistance to vomiting. Because of that, I didn't know what it was like to have the build-up to it, and had only seen others get sick. I began to trust myself that I wasn't always on the verge of getting sick, because the same situations had happened and I had not been sick before.

    Another thing that finally got me out of the spiral of despair was distraction, and engagement with things that I am driven to do and enjoy doing. I got a job that opened many doors to seeing the country and the world, and my mind didn't have time to fixate on "will I vomit" scenarios anymore.

    You're fortunate to have friends who are into the Far Eastern ways of thinking. I've been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in the Far East, mostly in China. I'm actually in Korea now on a job. There is so much us Westerners miss out on. I would not trade my time in China for anything.

    Sincerely,
    David

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Can i just randomly cut in and point out the lovely coincidence of our usernames, and the fact that your post mentions "I got a job that opened many doors to seing the country and the world, and my mind didn't have time to fixate on "will i vomit" scenarios anymore". I 100% agree with this turbo kinetic. You have charged me tonight

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetic View Post
    Can i just randomly cut in and point out the lovely coincidence of our usernames, and the fact that your post mentions "I got a job that opened many doors to seing the country and the world, and my mind didn't have time to fixate on "will i vomit" scenarios anymore". I 100% agree with this turbo kinetic. You have charged me tonight
    Yep I noticed the username similarity! That's great.

    What's interesting is, even though I don't have anxiety anymore, I still think about vomiting. It's like there is a 'memory' of the phobia, without the actual connection and action of anxiety. This memory of how bad the phobia was, makes me feel very thankful and peaceful each time I think about vomit, and don't have anxiety.

    If someone talks about feeling sick, I remember how I used to react. The fact that I don't feel anxious anymore brings me even more peace. I can focus on feelings for whoever might be uncomfortable, instead of my own mental discomfort.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    That is really inspiring! I hope i can achieve that kind of mental balance. Its like you can recognise your anxiety as a seperate being of sorts.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinetic View Post
    That is really inspiring! I hope i can achieve that kind of mental balance. Its like you can recognise your anxiety as a seperate being of sorts.
    Thanks!

    I see anxiety as a "faulty mode of operation" of the mind, more than an 'entity or being.' My mind is very logical. I can see a 'cause and effect' relationship in things that happen. The more times a certain event happens, the better my mind can establish definate causes. Beause I hardly ever get sick, my mind is trying to assign all sorts of "possible" causes to this effect!

    One of my 'gifts' at troubleshooting machinery and electronics is seeing cause and effect, but sometimes it works against me! LOL

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    I do not actually fear vomiting myself. I fear other's vomiting. I fear if they vomit, they will die. I have lost many people near and dear to me over the years. Two of the people I was closest to v*ed shortly before dying when I was young. One of them I was with when it happened. Many people do vomit shortly before dying. It is not an unusual thing. In addition, I have lost and will soon loose family members to cancer which often also includes vomit. My fear is most likely not a fear of vomiting so much as a fear of those I love dying. I suppose in a way it is a fear of letting go or loosing control. Everyone dies. There's no possible way to avoid losing those you love and loosing several different people throughout your life. You just have to enjoy the time you have with them while they are here.

    Rationally, I know that most people will vomit several times throughout life and live many years past it. But fear is not always rational. You cannot ever hope to gain control over someone else dying, because it's something that is eventually inevitable and besides, you have no control over it anyway. It is possible to gain control over the fear of death.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    I love your post - thank you for sharing. I found it very thought-provoking because I can relate to a lot of it. I too believe that most of us aren't true emetophobes but rather, as you say, let-go-a-phobes or in my case, don't-trust-a-phobe. I don't trust my body, I don't trust myself (my ability to handle it should it happen), I don't trust other people... I don't trust the world. To be truly terrified (phobia level) of something that NEVER happens to me would mean that I'd have to be completely crazy - literally out of my mind - because what reasonably sane person allows a fear of something that almost never happens (in my case twice in my life and it wasn't bad at all) to ruin EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY of my life? So the root of the fear has to be something other than vomit, even though, like most people on the planet, I hate vomiting and never want to do it. Anyway, I'm rambling. I just really liked your post, especially because we have so few positive insightful thought-provoking posts on here. Usually it's just panic posts.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    This is exactly how i feel. I dont like being in cars unless its mine and im driving, i hate going placesif im not able to leave right away, and i fear v because i cant control it. If i knew i could stop it then i probably wouldnt fear it.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Andy--need your words on the fear of others v....

    Your words great, but myself v.. is not my main fear.

    Great post.

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    Kick emets a....

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Great post, thank you! I've recently been reading about and trying to practice mindfulness meditation, and it is definitely having a positive effect on my general mental state. My general anxiety has decreased and I'm lots more upbeat to the delight of hubby... I think it's a good self help

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    I totally agree about the surrender. I have learned long ago that all of my phobias stem from my fear off loss of control. I fear things that I don't have control over.... When I have a panic attack and my brain gets caught in the loop of "what ifs" they are generally about things that it is impossible to have full control over... That's why vomiting scares me so much and I'm afraid to just give in. I've been suffering for my entire life with phobias, including emetophobia, fear of death, and hypochondria.... All thing I feel that I can't control or accept... I try to follow a similar path of controlled exposure... One of the reasons I don't abbreviate as well. I've downloaded photos and videos from the web, to help exposé me in a safe environment.

    i also have a lot of trouble eating out in restaurants. I generally feel trapped and the food smells and tight quarters have often brought on panic attacks. So I've been trying to eat out more often, I bring along some 'safety items' like a klonopin and possibly some gum or mints... And I try to tolerate it. I actually don't get panic attacks nearly as often, and hope that the exposure will make me feel safer in more situations.

    thanks AndySIW for the post!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Hi guys, glad this got people thinking. Some interesting responses Thanks Chris, glad you found it useful.

    Cynna, I'm afraid that the condition of fearing others vomiting but NOT yourself is not my field as it's probably quite a different issue. It falls into the realm of external stimulus rather than internal (sort of biological) stimulus.

    The area I'm experienced in and more understanding of is where your life is controlled by your own inner question of 'what if I get sick?' and then of course lots of things in life can create such a conditional situation so we then become avoidant across a ridiculous range of normal habits like eating, driving, drinking alcohol etc.

    But I got to my understanding through decades of intense and honest introspection. So that's what I suggest for any condition, phobia or otherwise!

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    Thanks!

    I see anxiety as a "faulty mode of operation" of the mind, more than an 'entity or being.' My mind is very logical. I can see a 'cause and effect' relationship in things that happen. The more times a certain event happens, the better my mind can establish definate causes. Beause I hardly ever get sick, my mind is trying to assign all sorts of "possible" causes to this effect!

    One of my 'gifts' at troubleshooting machinery and electronics is seeing cause and effect, but sometimes it works against me! LOL
    Are you an engineer? You sound like one. o_o

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by AoD View Post
    Are you an engineer? You sound like one. o_o
    Yep. You guessed it!
    Field service and Commissioning engineer for large diesel generator engines. Love every minute of it and get to see the world doing it!
    David

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Haha, neat! I'm in engineering too (chemical and process), aiming to work either in mineral processing or metallurgy once I finish my master's Fun to see fellow engineers on here!

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Great post, it has pulled together and given succinct words to thoughts i have had but never managed to piece.
    I agree with you on the root of emetophobia being a fear of or inability to surrender to conscious control; it is a lack of trust in one's own ability to just be and let life pan out how it's intended to.
    That applies to the act and for me a lot of anxiety in the run up to actually vomitting is knowing that i am imminently about to surrender my control to something else and not knowing who then has control. It's the most distressing part.
    I don't struggle with other people driving, though I do prefer to cook food and do prefer to lead in group situations. But i do have more severe fears of a lack of control with OCD - I walk around and see germs everywhere, as if i can actually see them; I'm tee-total not only because i don't want to be sick but primarily because I don't want to be out of control.

    It's all control. I'm a control freak :v

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    I can relate to the control, & the inability to let go of stuff. I`m haunted by past experiences of vting, & other unpleasant things that Iv`e been through in the past, usually because I didn`t have any control over what was happening. Control is very, very important to me now.

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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer


    "And then it hit me, that I'm fairly certain, that the core root of emetophobia is not vomit, but surrender! (or a resistance to it).

    Think about it. Vomiting is a thing that happens to the body, that we have varying degrees of control over, from a lot to none at all, and we resist it like hell.

    I myself have a TON of claustrophobia, which manifests in any and all forms of letting go and 'letting be' and surrendering. So...
    "


    Wow. Thank you for this post. It was very eye-opening, as I've noticed some (but not all) of these perspectives when it comes to emetophobia. Unfortunately I'm on the run for class so I couldn't finish reading your post, but I am going to print it out and study it because it seems really awesome/helpful. Thank you!!
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    Default Re: Philosophy of Emetophobia - from a 30 year sufferer

    Quote Originally Posted by AoD View Post
    Haha, neat! I'm in engineering too (chemical and process), aiming to work either in mineral processing or metallurgy once I finish my master's Fun to see fellow engineers on here!
    Cool! The engines I work with are used in the oil and gas industry, extensively. Overlapping fields for sure.

 

 

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