Ugh.. So mad

[mjewell]

tink, I agree with you 100%. I just think a lot of people do not fully read posts and responsesbefore responding then get all bent out of shape for no reason.

[suze]

I am proud to say that I am waiting until i have a steady enough income and home situation to do so

I have a steady income and my home situation was too for the first8 years of my kids being around. I think you're a little naive if you think life is that straightforward!

[mjewell]

ok, this is the last comment I am making on this thread because obviously you are not paying attention to what I am writing and I am getting pissed off which is really stupid...


I understand that being a single mother was not planned for you and I respect you for making a good life for your children and working hard soyou have the moneyfor what they need.


I am not talking about people like you suze!! I was referring to people who are single, poor, in a bad home, relationship, bad job, whatever BEFORE they have kids,but theydisregard this and have kids, usually more than one, and then expect sympathy from other people who do the work it takes to make sure their kids have a happy home. OK????


I'm out.

[eekelsey]

Oh...my...GOD.

This situation would absolutely make my SKIN CRAWL.I would not be
able to stay in that kind of proximity to a sick child.I would have to
leave work.

Probably, what I would have done is approach my boss and explain the
situation.Too often we put ourselves or keep ourselves in a difficult
position because we are just as afraid to TELL SOMEONE about our phobia
as we are of the stimulus.

Now I know not all jobs are lenient and not all bosses are understanding,
but I think if you went in and said something to the effect of,

"I'm sure you know Jim has his daughter in today, who was sent home
sick from school.Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but I'm finding
that my productivity is significantly compromised by having her here.

This may sound strange, but I have a pretty severe phobia relating to
stomach viruses.It's actually the fifth most common phobia.In fact, I'm
certain that others (or better yet, "I've spoken to others") that are also
experiencing a great deal of discomfort being around this child.

Perhaps you could suggest to Jim that he take a sick day to take care of
his daughter.I had thought about another option of taking a sick day or
a day without pay myself, but that hardly seems fair.What do you
suggest?"

I am lucky because my boss is a germophobe too.We have had
conversations about our hatred of sickness.My boss, my family, most of
my friends, and my boyfriend, all know about how I feel so they are
prepared for what to do if "something happens."We have talked about
how to tell me if they are sick, what to do if someone around me gets
sick, what to expect, etc.

We gotta talk about it!

[crimgoddess]

Dord- I am a very literal person, so if it is not stated explicitly that what someone writes is only in relation to one specific situation, I tend to view it at a generalization/overarching opinion. What someone writes on a message board is so impersonal- sometimes it's hard to determine exactly what someone means, so obviously there was a misunderstanding somewhere.


<<<<<I think a lot of people are felt sorry for because they can't afford their kids basic needs...granted, often times this is because of situations that are out of their control, like a natural disaster, spouse dying, leaving, etc. However, I can't say I have a lot of sympathy for people who get pregnant, accidentally or otherwise who cannot afford it or do not have the means to take care of a child. Nothing burns me more than seeing a poor, white trash adult with a gaggle of kids who through no fault of their own are dirty and wearing old dirty clothes.>>>>>>


Echoing a question you asked me a few weeks ago- am I correct to assume that you are conservative politically? I don't think it's right to automatically assume that people who have very little monetarily can't do a good job of raising their children. Both of my parents grew up extremely poor- my mother and seven of her brothers and sisterslived in a 3 bedroom, one bathroom subsidized housing project with my grandmother. They were never 'dirty', nor would they ever be considered 'white trash' (haha- because to be considered such I would assume you would have to be white). Although they faced a lot of problems, they all grew up to be successful- my mom just made partner at her insurance firm, my uncled got his masters and is now teaching, my aunt owns her own business.....the list goes on. Although money can alleviate some of the problems that a family may face- it is no substitute for a loving parent that treats their children decently. Things such as abuse and neglect don't just affect the poor.


Like suze said- if ONLY life were so straightforward....


<<<<<<That being said, I am probably a little biased because I dont have kids. I chose not to because I know that I am really terrified of them getting sick, and I guess it really irked me that I was put in a situation that I was forced to deal with a sick kid. I realize that is totally selfish of me, and it really makes me feel like an ass to be so upset by it. I just feel helpless when put in a situation that I cannot control (when it has to do with sickness) I guess I am a big chicken.. I apologize for upsetting anyone, it wasnt my intention at all..>>>>>>


Tink, it's quite big of you to be able to admit this. You're not a chicken (lol- whenever someone says this Ialso have atendency to think literal- boc-boc-boc)- you just have a phobia, and were made to confront one of your biggest fears. It'sunderstandable that you were upset. As for upsetting anyone- you didn't upset me. I think the trajectory of this thread is quite interesting- if your situationis bringing about a small debate, then I for one have no issue with it Ittends to happen with issues such as these....


*amber*

[californiagirl]

Sorry to go a bit off topic, but the "some parents have no choice attitude" ticks me off. Parents DO have a choice. Don't have kids until you are prepared to take care of them. That is your choice.

Very well said, I agree with this statement. By this, I mean that it upsets me when I see a very obviously destitute woman w/kids already, and she's pregnant! Ifpeople wait until theirfinancially able to have kids, then it seems to never be the right time, BUT people do need to be fair--kids need things, a clean home, stable home, food, clean clothes, medical care, and parents who aren't always fighting due to finances. I was able to stay home while raising my kids, because in my opinion, I made the choice to have them, and it was MY job to care for and raise them, but when I divorced an abusive hubby, I was on my own, raising them, but they were older and were able to "babysit" themselves while I worked (I just lucked out). So, I have lived both sides of this spectrum. I cannot place fault on anyone, but I can state my opinion that before people START to have a family, to be responsible and be fair to the kids they'll be having. Situations do change beyond our control, but come on, if people are very poor, DON'T have more kids that they can't afford! Edited by: californiagirl

[65roses]

Nothing you say suze, is going to change my mind. I have an endstage disease and a compromised immune system, a simple cold could kill me. If the staff at the hospital I was in had your attitude about bringing sick kids to work or coming to work sick, I could die from it. I'm on disability right now, but back when I worked someone brought their child into work because he was sick and he ran all around the office, I caught the bug from him and was hospitalized for 6 weeks and lost the job. So yes, that WOULD make me mad in tink's situation. What makes someone think they are better than you, that they can't miss work, but sure, you can get sick and miss work, no problem. Arrogant.


Tink- Like I said before, I think you handled it well. And you're not selfish at all, it is NOT selfish to not want children, some people act like the entire world revolves around children-- it doesn't.I don't want children, andeven if I did, could not have them. It's not selfish, I want a life for myself and I don't see myself raising kids, there isNOTHING wrong with that. And you shouldn't have to deal with other peoples kids if you don't want to, you're hired to do your job, NOT babysit. If you were a nanny, that would be one thing, but it sounds like you're in an office situation, completely different potato.

[suze]

65 Roses - I'm sorry you are ill, and as much as you paint a picture of me as arrogant. I'm not, OK? For your information, if taking my kids to work was going to cause anyone any serious ill health, then I would like to think that my employer wouldensure that we were notallowed to do this. But I work in a University, and everyday I am surrounded by thousands of young adults from every corner of the globe, as well as a couple of hundred staff. During the winter months, every class I take, every lecture I give, is full of tens, sometimes hundreds of kids, sniffing, sneezing, coughing etc. What do we do, ban them from attending, put their whole degrees at risk, just because someone else might become ill? I'm sorry, but this is unrealistic andunworkable. Also, tell me, if I have class of 200 kids due to sit a scheduled piece of assessed work,do I cancel it if I have a cold? Just because I might pass it on? It's OK if you work somewhere where you can take a week off and just pick up where you left off, but in my line of work you can't.


If I take my kids in when they're ill, and it does depend on how ill they are, then I do not let them run around, they stay in my office, and I get someone to watch them for the hour I teach, or with my eldest, he'll sit in the class along with all the other sniffing kids. This is usually no more than a couple of hours a day, and once my commitments are over, I take them straight home. Now obviously, if I worked in a hospital where this could seriously compromise someone, I would neverbe allowed to do it, so your comment that"If the staff at the hospital I was in had your attitude about bringing sick kids to work or coming to work sick, I could die from it." is irrelevant in this instance. And let's be honest, someone who was immuno-compromised would not think of working where I do, it would be way too dangerous.


In an ideal world, every working parent would want to keep their children home when they are ill, but sometimes it just isn't possible, believe me, because I would if I could. I'm lucky, I would never lose my job or a days pay if I stayed off with my kids, but given the nature of my job, sometimes I just can't. I'm sorry if you can't see this.


And I don't think people think it's selfish not to want to children, nor do I think that the world revolves around them.MY world revolves around MY children, not children per se.If people choose not to have them, then what's the problem with that?


Once again, I'm sorry you have been ill and hope you're starting to feel better.

[californiagirl]

So --- what if someone in 65Roses' health situation was working in that office where the little girl was brought in, coughing and sick? That would be even more unfair of the father to put her at risk with her immune system being compromised. I agree that unless your a nanny, you shouldn't be put in the position to work around someone else's sick child. Tink did not choose to be in that situation, it was imposed on her, which was unfair. The father of the child and his selfish wife have problems that should be dealt with at home, not putting other people at risk and bothering them about it. I have kids, and completely respect anyone who chooses not to have kids. To be honest, now that I'm a little older and my youngest is 14, I have very little patience for kids and especially their irresponsible parents who bring them out into thepublic sick, or throwing fits in public places (uughhh I hate that!). It all has to do with RESPECT. Frankly, if I were Tink I would be PISSED to be put in that situation. The girl's father is just plain selfish, plain and simple.


Oh, and 65Roses, I am sorry about your illness, I lost my Mom due to illness in 2004. If you ever need to "talk", please PM me. I know your parents are in the medical field, and I used to be a nurse myself, so I understand.[img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]Edited by: californiagirl

[suze]

[QUOTE=californiagirl]


So --- what if someone in 65Roses' health situation was working in that office where the little girl was brought in, coughing and sick? That would be even more unfair of the father to put her at risk with her immune system being compromised.


I don't think there is any doubt that in this situation the father should NOT have brought his kid into work because a: he could easily have taken time off to care for her, and b: he was doing so to have ago at this wife.Moreover, I would like to think that most people are decent enough to know thatyou just don't take sick people, kids or otherwise, into the vicinity of immuno-compromised people, whether that be in hospitals, nursing homes, even the workplace.For Christsake, how sadistic do you think the human race is? If I knew someone at work was so ill that I could endanger their lives, and in most workplaces you would probably get to hear this, then I would never put them at risk.


My point is simply that life cannot come to a standstill just because your kid has a cold. What if you have other kids that need to be taken to school, what if you need to buy food in, what if you need to take the child to the doctor?You cannotbecome a prisoner inyour own home for fear of unknowingly infecting someone else.


And if "kids throwing fits" is to mean temper tantrums, if your kids never did this in public, then you're a very lucky mother! My son never did, but my daughter has done. I used to blame the parents too, until I had one who'd throw a wobbly for nothing other than skipping an aisle in the supermarket! It's a normal part of a child's development, at a time when they can't communicate or rationalise. If I see it happen, I actually feel sorry for the parent and the child, and try to help if I can. It's hard enough dealing with the situation when it arises, never mind having to suffer members of the public looking down their noses at you.


And 69Roses, I really do apologise if my views, opinions and behavior offends you; I wish you well.

[californiagirl]

[QUOTE=suze]

And if "kids throwing fits" is to mean temper tantrums, if your kids never did this in public, then you're a very lucky mother! My son never did, but my daughter has done. I used to blame the parents too, until I had one who'd throw a wobbly for nothing other than skipping an aisle in the supermarket! It's a normal part of a child's development, at a time when they can't communicate or rationalise. If I see it happen, I actually feel sorry for the parent and the child, and try to help if I can. It's hard enough dealing with the situation when it arises, never mind having to suffer members of the public looking down their noses at you.

Actually, of my three kids, this happened ONCE. My son threw a fit and that was the last time. I took him outside and set him straight. That was the first and last time it has happened to me. What upsets me is the kids that throw tantrums because they want something from the store and are told NO, them they cry, scream, ruen around and lay on the floor. Most of the time, the parents just casually tell them that they're being bad, or they do my favorite thing, count to 10!! Give me a break! The brat then knows that he has until 9-1/2 to MAYBE stop his fit. I never "counted" with my kids, the problem was dealt with immediately when they acted up. When a child is screaming due to pain, injury, or illness, that's a whole different story of course. In that case the child isn't just being a brat, he/she isjust trying to tell them parent something is wrong. I was raised on strict discipline and respect, and that's how I raised my kids. Parenting is damn hard work, and that's why I really don't blame some people for not wanting kids, it's tough!!

[crimgoddess]

Actually, of my three kids, this happened ONCE. My son threw a fit and that was the last time. I took him outside and set him straight. That was the first and last time it has happened to me. What upsets me is the kids that throw tantrums because they want something from the store and are told NO, them they cry, scream, ruen around and lay on the floor. Most of the time, the parents just casually tell them that they're being bad, or they do my favorite thing, count to 10!! Give me a break! The brat then knows that he has until 9-1/2 to MAYBE stop his fit. I never "counted" with my kids, the problem was dealt with immediately when they acted up. When a child is screaming due to pain, injury, or illness, that's a whole different story of course. In that case the child isn't just being a brat, he/she isjust trying to tell them parent something is wrong. I was raised on strict discipline and respect, and that's how I raised my kids. Parenting is damn hard work, and that's why I really don't blame some people for not wanting kids, it's tough!!





Well, for what it's worth- although I'm sure you may think that my opinion isn't worth much since I DON'T have a kid of my own, many parenting guides, not to mention principles of behavioural psychology, would advocate ignoring the child when they are throwing a temper tantrum because they want something, or for some other reason that is either beyond your control or beyond the child's control. Why? Because the reason why they are acting out is to get a rise out of you- and because they think that if they wail and moan enough, they will eventually get what they want. If you do nothing, and go about your business as though they are not screaming and yelling and causing a general disturbance, they figure out that "gee, this isn't working. I'm not going to get what I want". Their actions are not rewarded- either physically by something they want, or emotionally, from the attention they receive (both good and bad). Part of the reason why some children throw fits consistently, is because parents occasionally give in and give them something they want. This is the worst kind of conditioning- because then the kids know that if they whine and moan and pitch a fit- they MIGHT get what they want. Dangerous! I used to work as a caregiver for a little boy who had Down's syndrome- because of the fact that some family members would give him what he wanted when he cried for it- or started self-injurous behaviour- it made it really REALLY hard to break that cycle. I had to deal with a few months of fits before he realized that acting like that wasnt going to get him anywhere with me.


Suze- I hear you about throwing fits about things that are completely irrational. One of my cousins that I babysat for years once threw a fit because a character on Barney was wearing an outfit that she didnt like! Haha- how do you deal with that one? I really wish I was inside her head and could see what her rationale was- or why she was so offended by a pink jumper!


*amber*

[crystalmom]

My son "throws fits". I don't think I am a bad mother....just been too easy on him. He is very strong-willed and knows what he wants. He will find a way...he is just like his mom (although I use a more suitable approach).


If a young child has a temper tantrum in public, does not make his parent, or parents, bad, or lacking. We all do the best we can, with everything we know and learn. And believe in.


Crystal

[californiagirl]

CRIMGODDESS ~~~~~


I do agree with you about the discipline issue and eventually giving in to the tantrums. The approach you talked about, ignoring the child and going about your business is absolutely good advice. That is so much easier to do at home though, but when your in a public place, I think it's inconsiderate to other people to let the fit continue. To me, when I hear a kid throwing a fit, it's like nails on a chalkboard[img]smileys/smilies_10.gif[/img] That's why I don't believe in the ridiculous counting thing. The kids can't possibly take the parent seriously when they count. Don't get me wrong here anybody, I like kids, just don't have the patience for them anymore--I've raised mine and I'm done. Actually I'm a 39-year-old grandmother--YIKES!!!!!!!!!


So, CRIMGODDESS, I think that for once, we are in agreement on this issue[img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]Edited by: californiagirl