Politics?

Its 2am and I can't sleep so I thought what the hell, I'll ask the IES bunch what their politics are. I'm studying politics and government forAS level next year and thought I could get some interesting view points here.


Its another few years before I can actually vote, but I would probably describe myself more as liberal than anything else. Equal rights etc. Just seems like a nice idea.


I was also curious about the opinions from the various countries we have here about their current leaders, Bush, Blair etc.


I'm personally not a huge fan of Tony Blair's, I think he lives his life under the thumb of America and my thoughts about Mr Bush are best kept to myself.


What are your thoughts?

Very liberal here. Don't want any arguments to start with this topic though[img]smileys/smilies_09.gif[/img].

i'm also liberal, but not very informed. I will be old enough to vote in the next presidential election though (just make it a month before!) so i need to start. I don't want to start an argument either though, judging from what happened the last time that a political discussion was started on these boards. I'll just say that i am very liberal.


<3 Anya--Edited by: spilled_milk

I must say that I'm a bit conservative. I believe in the enforcement of the death penalty (in extreme cases), prisons, and border control. I believe this country needs to buckle down some to control certain issues.

I'm very conservative too, though I'm sure it's a bit different in every country.

I'm on the very liberal side. ;-)

I'm a socialist (Canadian), pacifist, left-wing Christian. How's that for a conversation starter? (not that I want to start one). My particular church ordains gay people, advocates for social justice for the poor, is very socialist, is open to all world religions as being equal, and is against violence of any kind especially war. We're also totally into global economic justice, and protecting the environment.


But that's more prevalent in Canada as a world-view than in the US, I imagine.


As for arguments starting, the only way that can happen is if people stop defining themselves and start trying to re-define others. So as long as everyone makes their post an I-statement, then there won't be an argument. Once it wavers over into "how can you think that way", or "I think people who believe such-and-so are..."...well, then it will become an "argument" and then...one of us mods will lock it!


So have fun defining yourselves if you like!

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Originally Posted by sage

I'm a socialist (Canadian), pacifist, left-wing Christian. How's that for a conversation starter? (not that I want to start one). My particular church ordains gay people, advocates for social justice for the poor, is very socialist, is open to all world religions as being equal, and is against violence of any kind especially war. We're also totally into global economic justice, and protecting the environment.

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That sounds like such a neat church Sage [img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]! I was raised as a Unitarian Universalist living in America and it sounds like a similar sort of religion, though we're pretty non-denominational in terms of belief in God, etc. It is supposedly one of the oldest established religions in both the UK and US. However, I don't often talk too much about it in public since UUs are the butt of SO many jokes. We're usually made fun of for being so nice and wishy-washy, but being loving towards other isn't anything I'm ashamed of being labeled as.

i tend to have mainly liberal views but i don't think i am informed enough to debate or argue most issues concerning the world.

I am a liberal. I just got my American citizenship and I
vote democrat. There are some things about America politics that I find to be
an improvement from my previous experience (Russia and Germany, where I was
born, raised etc) - I think there is a lot more 'freedom' in the US. This may
not always be such a great thing, and is especially disappointing when it is
NOT used. For example we have freedom of the press, but I don't think the press
is truly 'free' because like any other enterprise they are at the mercy of what
the readers wish to read. I enjoy reading articles and magazines from all
political points of view because I truly try to see the other people's side of
the story (I don't always succeed). I have been unsuccessful in accepting neo-Nazis
and the highly racist white supremacists that are found in some parts of the
country, though I don't really try as these groups are really against
everything I believe in (i.e. equality, acceptance). What a paradox!

There are things that I am a huge fan of that I believe could be very much
improved upon in the US. Healthcare is one example. I wish we had a more social
approach to the welfare of the citizens. I realize this is an impossibility
because the American society is built on individualism and capitalism, and a
more social approach is really counterintuitive in society that values these
things. I do wish that American school systems would improve in regards to the
education in the social studies such as history and geography. I went to high
school in New Hampshire and don't think I learned much about the world (though
they do teach American history well!).

I am a big advocate and supporter of Planned Parenthood and the right to
choose. Them and the democrats are the only group I have ever donated money to
(well, also UNICEF, but that's not so political).

I am also very concerned about thecurrent 'debate' about evolution vs.
intelligent design. I have a degree in biology and I try to read everything
that I come across on BOTH view points.

I strongly wish to believe that there is a better way to end most disagreements
than war and fighting. I think that compromises can be achieved but I know that
I am a hypocrite because there are things and groups I will never be able to
see eye to eye with.

I wish that this affair with the Middle East had not happened, or happened
differently. I am not sure what the best way forward is from here, but I can't
help but wish that the governments that had a say in it had come up with
another solution. I can't help but feel that this whole mess truly was because
of oil. What happened on September 11th was very sad. Many people died and its
true that it was an attack fueled by hate. But it is even sadder to see this
tragedy be used to justify attacks on Kuwait, Iraq, Iran, you name it.
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With power comes responsibility, and I am afraid I don't think that the current
administration is using its p

csjones~ I'm a UU too! lol people at my school actually think it's pretty cool, cause i live in a very liberal town/state (MA).


&lt;3 Anya--

I agree with Californiagirl!

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Originally Posted by spilled_milk

csjones~ I'm a UU too! lol people at my school actually think it's pretty cool, cause i live in a very liberal town/state (MA).


&lt;3 Anya--

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Gosh, that's cool Anya! I have never met another online...or anywhere else really, except for my church, which is about a half hour away from me. I'm in PA and live in an area where everyone is a little less than tolerant of other peoples' beliefs...ugh.

Californiagirl, when you say you believe in the enforcement of the death penalty, would you mind defining extreme circumstances? This is genuine curiousity, not an attack! [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]

To add my peice in on the death penilty, Why in a sense kill someone for killing someone else ect, I believe its more of an easy way out for them, they have no doubt an imbalance for being able to kill someone, cold blood on there own hands then the goverment lets it happin as well, they have done terrible crimes, i just believe that its giving them the easy way out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x hannah x

Californiagirl, when you say you believe in the enforcement of the death penalty, would you mind defining extreme circumstances? This is genuine curiousity, not an attack! [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]

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What I mean is, and I am not into politics, so this may sound kind of un-educated, but I believe that when someone commits murder, primarily PREMEDITATED murder, they have taken someone's life away. I feel that at that moment, they have forfeited all of their own rights, and rather than overcrowd the prisons and burden the taxpayers to support these people who live in a small cell for theur life sentences, why not make it to where the punishment fits the crime? I know there are situations of crimes of passion, involuntary manslaughter, things like that, and I don't think death is the answer, that those people can be rehabilitated somehow. But premeditated is just wrong, especially if there are kids involved. The former principal of my middle school I went to killed a family, including their 6-year-old son. He's still alive, 15 years later, and I think it's ridiculous. He s serving a couple of consecutive life sentences, so what's the point? I have been beat up by an ex and violently raped twice by him, and was afraid to sleep at night for fear he'd kill me, leaving my kids without a mother. I don't have alot of tolerance for people like that, let alone the ones who actually do kill in cold blood, leaving behind kids and families. BUT, like I mentioned earlier, people who get into a fight, per say, and one of them kills without actually intending to, is bad, but I feel that that particular person may be shocked and possibly not repeat the crime and want to change his/her life after that. Then, death is not the answer for them. Whew, I hope you understand how I feel now, and let's PLEASE all remember that we're not all gonna agree on these subjects, but I am just rendering my opinion, because it was asked of me.Edited by: californiagirl

I don't really know where I fall, I'm old enough to vote but I don't...unless it's a presidential election. I once voted for a guy because his wife is Kate Mulgrew (and she's one of my idols) so my priorities are a little out of whack LoL! What I DO believe is that MEN should have ABSOLUTELY NO SAY in Abortion laws. They'll never be pregnant and until one gets that way it's NOT their issue to rally for or against. the problem is we run in a male dominated society but men have NO RIGHT. Now if it was a law about not being able to get vasectimies (Sp?) then they can vote. I believe in the death penalty (I had a friend murdered when I was in highschool and the guy didn't get the death penalty and it pisses me off) but other then that I'm indifferent to most things.


~Monica

I am pretty much the middle of the road, but just a little more conservative than anything else. I have a stong belive in the military. As harsh as this sounds (no offense to anyone PLEASE!) I do not believe in giving goverment help to EVERYONE, just those that truly need it. I do not believe that affirmative action is fair. Just because someone is of different gender or race they should not have first dibs on jobs or education. If someone is qualified they deserve that oppertunity. I believe in penelizing criminals appropriatly, I think that is someone intentionally kills someone then they too should have to suffer the consequences. For example, killing a police officer just because he is doing there job and you don't like cops.


I am also liberal in other areas, I believe abortion is your right. Anything you want to do to your body and you body only is your choice. I believe in gay marriage. Why should I care who wants to get married?


I just really don't have the tolorence for people who want free handouts. I see that everyday in the line of work I am in. Many people are very selfish and think they deserve it when the rest of us have to work and it really pisses me off.

I guess I would classify myself as extremely leftist in terms of political ideology- so much so that even the more leftist popular political parties in my country aren't left enough for me, because they still pander to a more conservative ideals to get votes.


I am a prison abolitionist- all prisons do is exacerbate an already bad situation, and make the person more likely to re-offend upon release. If you put a dog in a cage for a few years and poke them with a stick repeatedly- how do you think it is going to act when it's let out of the cage? That is essentially what prison does. Don't believe any of the BS you see in the common media about prisons being "Club Fed", or "not harsh enough"- there are actual physical manifestations of people living in an environment where they are at a constant threat of physical and sexual violence- heart conditions, ulcers, the worsening of pre-existing conditions....not to mention mental illness (either pre-existing or developing since they were put inside).


You can't punish someone better- inevitably you have to make a choice; do you want them to to not reoffend, or do you want to put them in a position where they are MORE likely to reoffend? Because the latter is what is happening now. In Canada, almost all individuals who are entering the Criminal (In)Justice System WILL be returned to the community. Treating them like absolute rubbish won't make them better "citizens"- and it also won't repare the harm that was done by their initial crime. The prison system has been an abysmal failure since it's inception, as has the entire (In)Justice system- yet theyare politically viable ideals, so they remain.


As for the death penalty- I'm with Violet. I think the death penalty is pre-meditated murder by the state. I also think that it is completelycontradictoryfor the state or it'speople to say that, that activity is wrong, but then to perpetuate it. It isn't "justice" in my opinion, it is vengeance. I have had the opportunity to speak with family members whose loved ones were murdered, and then the perpetrators ofthat murder were murdered themself via the death penalty. You know what? It didn't make them feel better. Killing that person didn't bring their child back- and it also punished another mother by taking away her child.


I have also had the privilege of going into a medium-secure prison for 4 years to speak with men serving life sentences, and have just begun to go into a minimum facility as well. I have seen men who, in some states, would have been given death for their crimes playing with their children and hugging their wives- I have also seen them take pride in developing skills, and work hard in upon release to make something of themselves in the community, and to rise above others opinions of themselves. I can't see these people as trash, or worthy of death- even though they have comitted horrible acts. Killing someone who can still be a productive member of society won't bring the person that they killed back, nor will it bring comfort to the family for just that reason.


There is a saying that a society shouldn't be judged by how they treat their friends, but by how they treat their enemies. I believe in this, and am deeply ashamed of what is occuring in my country and in others, and my goal as a future educator is to teach the ideals of social justice and abolition to my future students, and hope that in the future they will be able to instigate change, as I doubt it will occur in my lifetime.


Those are really the main issues that I feel strongly about- so strongly that a large chunk ofmy life is devoted to it. What I also think needs to be addressed in conjunction with this issue is the large inequities between the rich and the poor, and how that relates to crime and crime control. Two great books that I would highly recommend are Crime Control as Industry: Towards Gulags Western Style by Nils Christie, and Lockdown America by Christian Parenti.


Well....that is my novel for th

This is such an interesting thread, I love seeing all the different view points. I find myself agreeing with a lot of you and really thinking about issues I have never thought of before, it's great. I have a hard time voting because I also feel like I am too uninformed, and I think it is sort of irresponsible to just vote for the sake of voting, or to just vote for a certain party wiothout really considering their postions on all issues. I never know where to look to get info on candidates, because the media and everyhting is always so biased. Honestly I am getting more info here than I do on the news :)


I don't really know where I fall on the political spectrum. I am in strong support of preserving the environment above business interests, animal rights and pro choice. I think gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want.


Like Mitch, I do not believe in Affirmative Action. I believe in equality, so to me any program that gives someone a leg up on everyone else based on nothing but race, gender, etc is racism. I don't think white people in the US "owe a debt" to Native Americans or black people. We have no control over what our forefathers did. We should respect all races today but I don't belive we need to pay them back with reverse racism.


I do believe the US needs help when it comes to our health care system, but I'm not really sure what a good solution would be. Everyone screams and cries about our bad system, but what then is a good solution? Everyone would throw fits if our taxes were raised to pay for health care. I think a good solution is harder than people think.


I like paulina's analogy of Europe as wise old men and US as hot blooded young cocky execs.[img]smileys/smilies_01.gif[/img]


I used to believe the death penalty was a good punishment (eye for an eye), but now I'm not so sure. Like others have said, does it really solve anything? I'm also not convinced it is our place on earth to decide who lives and dies. That should be the job of God, and killing others doesn't necessarily make us better than the murderer. On the OTHER hand, I completely agree with Californiagirl that it is wrong for us to have to pay the taxes to keep people locked up for life too.


I think Crimgoddess's ideas on prison are interesting...I just wonder where we would get the resources to pay for rehabilitation for every prisoner that comes through the system. Seems like it would be awfully expensive. Also, what about the psychos that can't be rehabilitated...what do you do with them?


Let's see, are there any issues I have left off? LOL. Thanks again to everyone who posted here. I really like to have food for thought on political issues, particularly since I am not the most politically savvy person.

I used to think I was a Liberal Republican, now I think mabey I'm a Conservative Democrat. I guess I'm just confused.

Okay, I was hesitant to join in, because I was worried there would be arguing, because politics is such a heated topic. But there hasn't been, so I will chime in. I am pretty liberal. I believe in a woman's right to choose, Universal healthcare, gay marriage. I'm torn on the death penalty. I wonder about what we should do with people that are so messed up and have done horrible things, that are unable to be rehabilitated.
I'm hesitant to label myself one political party, because I'm mistrustful of politics and politicians in general.

&lt;&lt;&lt;I think Crimgoddess's ideas on prison are interesting...I just wonder where we would get the resources to pay for rehabilitation for every prisoner that comes through the system. Seems like it would be awfully expensive. Also, what about the psychos that can't be rehabilitated...what do you do with them?&gt;&gt;&gt;


Well, currently Correctional Services Canada's mandate SOLELY revolves around rehabilitation and risk management, so every person incarcerated in the federal system gets profiled and a 'treatment' package constructed- alcohol and drug abuse counselling, anger management, etc. The thing is these programs don't work because A) It's hard to tell people that they need to develop a sense of self worth and self esteem when they are treated like absolute garbage for the other 22 hours of the day, and B) It's easier to say no to drugs when you are locked up and subject to random piss tests- the info you learn in treatment while on the inside isn't always transferable to when you are out.


Treatment and sentences served in the community not only cost a whole lot LESS than prisons, but are also more effective. Also, some restorative justice initiaties actually have a higher satisfaction rate for victims of crimes, as they actually get to show the perpetrator the harm that they caused and provide better ways to repair this than a prison sentence.


In one area, instead of sending men who physically abused their wives to prison (which, in many cases, the women don't want because A) their husband will miss work, and they are usually the primary if only supporter of the family, and B) they don't want to leave their husband, they just want the abuse to stop, they made them build a shelter for abused women, and speak to some of the women who will be living there.


Also- get rid of the idea that prisons cost you a lot of money- they do in some respects, but in others they are a cash cow that make a lot of money for various corporations. In the United States many prisons have been privatized, which means that everything from construction to support is outsources and corners are cut to make both the corporations that build them and provide goods for them a LOOOT of money. Also, in terms of employment, they provide a lot of jobs without the need for much skill. I would highly, HIGHLY recommend the books I mentioned in my previous post- they do a lot to dispell the myth that prisons are a drain on the economy. Think about it- there is a reason why more are being constructed in the United States when the crime rate has been declining steadily.


Abolitionists do acknowledge that there are a certain percentage of people that need to be segregated from the community because they pose a legitimate harm- but that has been estimated at less than 5% of the current prison population. These comprise the serial killers, and those who are so severely mentally ill that they cannot function in society without posing significant risk to others.


I also think that people need to stop thinking of rehabilitation as something that needs to happen after a crime has been committed- a lot can be done to prevent people from turning to crime in the first place, but don't because these initiatives are often expensive, don't wield immediate results, and are passed along as "some other organization's problem".


Think about it- some states use grade 3 reading scores to predict future crime rates, and they are apparently decently accurate. What can be done NOW for these children to help them succeed in the future without crime? Many afterschool, mentorship, and head start programs get started, but are inevitably cancelled due to lack of funding. If more money was invested in "at risk" (how I hate those words) youth, the payout at the end would be much greater.


The thing is- crime is functional in society. It serves a purpose both politically and socially. Since the "war on drugs" (aka- the war on urban black youth) began, crime is now part of the political jargon used to rally th