Causes of Emetophobia

[sage]

Well, guys - here's the result of a year or so of my research for my book. Tell me whether this list of causes rings true for you, or what doesn't:
What emetophobia-sufferers have in common isalmost alwayssomething like this:
1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.


2) hereditary factors (history of anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family orancestors going back3 generations)


3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)


4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively "coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the point is that there is a family focus on the victim.) Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or physical symptoms of something).


Another indicator of family anxiety is "cutoff":someone in the family is "not speaking to" or "speaking about"someone else - somewhere in the system of people who are still alive, but occasionally the person cutoff is dead. Cutoff can occasionally be emotional rather than physical, so a relationship is maintained, but the two people do not speak of anything but shallow small-talk and avoid some major "issue" that cannot be spoken of.


5) a frightening or shameful incident connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that and not resolved by the age of 9. Occasionally this happened to someone else rather than the victim. Sometimes vomiting gets hooked in with other forms of sickness instead which have frightened the victim, even if he or she did not vomit.


I invite your comments! How many of the 5 factors are present for you? (I'm selfishly making this topic sticky for a bit - then I'll move it on down the line with the rest - lol!)Edited by: sage

[leese]

Definately # 4 for me, I remember my grandma when ever she was sick on her stomach, moaning, groaning, pacing, calling us to be by her side, it was a PRODUCTION! She would go out side &bang on her neighbors doors for help, help that she couldnt breathe...Poor thing, well I developed it im guessing by learning that this IS A TERRIBLE Ordeal, im trying to cope & not let it get to the extinct hse has let it but its hard, when i go long periods of time with out Vomiting, its worse but when they are closer together i can tell my self ok lisa your ok , your ok, it doesnt last forever, but my biggest fear is definately doing it in public, if im going to be sick i want to be in the privacy of my own home so no one sees me panic!


-Lisa

[Margaret]

1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.

YES: I've been seperated with my family the first two days after I was born. I can imagine this has influence on my phobia, but obviously I can't remember it.

2) hereditary factors (history of anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family orancestors going back3 generations)

NO: I don't think so. I have one cousin who has an anxiety disorder, but furthermore I don't think there are any anxiety disorder, depression, alcoholism in my family

3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)

YES: I have vomited only twice in 29 years.

4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively "coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the point is that there is a family focus on the victim.) Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or physical symptoms of something).

NO: I have a healthy family system. The only thing which could be related to this (but then the statement should be brouder) is thatI had a sister and mother who vomited A LOT.

5) a frightening or shameful incident connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that and not resolved by the age of 9. Occasionally this happened to someone else rather than the victim. Sometimes vomiting gets hooked in with other forms of sickness instead which have frightened the victim, even if he or she did not vomit.

YES: when I was 9 the boy next to me in class vomited suddenly and looked shocked himself that it happened. I think from this incident I have the believe that vomiting can suddenly surprise you.


By the way Sage: I am intriged why the age of 9 is so important! Can you tell more about it?


So I would say: 3 out of 5 for me.

[harmonygirl72]

For me, it is hugely #1, with a little bit of 2, 3, and 4 thrown in. Just not #5 that I can remember...oh, wait...there was a story from when I was little about the "time Mary missed the bucket." Holy cow!! It's all of them for me!! You rock, Sage!


Mary

[Melikasa]

Could be 1,2 and 5 for me. I was seperated from my biological mother pretty much after birth ( of course I don't remember) The funny thing is that I am glad that I was especially since my mom was native and I am ashamed of my ancestory. (The local that I know about) My father was Hawiianand I know nothing of his ancestory other than that since he left my mom.



It COULD be hereditory we wouldn't know


and asfor 5 I knowone incident in particular at my sisters that made my EMET even worse than it was before. She is a neat freak and always kept her house really neat and I got sick on her carpet when I was about 8. That is when leaving the house became a problem.


I love your research thanks sooo much Sage.

[allyryder]

[QUOTE=sage]
What emetophobia-sufferers have in common isalmost alwayssomething like this:
1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.
When I was a little baby, my mom tells me stories all the time about how I used to cry and cry when I couldn't see her. Once she was redoing the floors in the bathroom and I cried my eyes out because I was in my carriage in the living room and she was 10 feet away in the bathroom. Another incident happened when I was also a baby and she was getting wood. EAch time she would go from my sight I'd cry. There are many more stories...but those are just the most 'famous' ones. I suppose that this was my view of 'abandonment' even though I wasn't even a year old yet.


2) hereditary factors (history of anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family orancestors going back3 generations)


Well..let's see...my grandfather and my cousin were/are full fledged alcoholics. Also have some thrown in on my dad's side, too. Anxiety...yep...depression...yep..so I think that this fits!


3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)


I always said I was going to break the world record for longest time not throwing up [img]smileys/smilies_02.gif[/img]


4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively "coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the point is that there is a family focus on the victim.) Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or physical symptoms of something).


Another indicator of family anxiety is "cutoff":someone in the family is "not speaking to" or "speaking about"someone else - somewhere in the system of people who are still alive, but occasionally the person cutoff is dead. Cutoff can occasionally be emotional rather than physical, so a relationship is maintained, but the two people do not speak of anything but shallow small-talk and avoid some major "issue" that cannot be spoken of.


I guess I would need clarification from Sage on this one. My mother suffered from severe asthma and would always freak out and make a big to do about it. Never was about vomiting but she did gag a lot from coughing so hard. I'm not sure if that 'qualifies'


5) a frightening or shameful incident connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that and not resolved by the age of 9. Occasionally this happened to someone else rather than the victim. Sometimes vomiting gets hooked in with other forms of sickness instead which have frightened the victim, even if he or she did not vomit.


I would have to say that this is the missing link with my emet. I really have NO idea what happened...just that something must have.


*graphic*


Once I felt really ill and my mom brought me to the bathroom. I leaned over the toilet and then i just freaked out. I remembered what i

[Jenneh]

1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.


as you probs already know by now ... abuse was what did it for me ... so that ones true.


2) hereditary factors (history of anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family orancestors going back3 generations)


my dad im almost certain has social phobia because he acts just lke me ... my grandad was an alcoholic and they believe he was also a schizophrenic.. so that can be ringed as true also ...


3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)


well... i haven't v*ed since i was 11... im 17 now ... does tht count as nething?


4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively "coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the point is that there is a family focus on the victim.) Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or physical symptoms of something).


nope. no worrying done about me in my family =P


Another indicator of family anxiety is "cutoff":someone in the family is "not speaking to" or "speaking about"someone else - somewhere in the system of people who are still alive, but occasionally the person cutoff is dead. Cutoff can occasionally be emotional rather than physical, so a relationship is maintained, but the two people do not speak of anything but shallow small-talk and avoid some major "issue" that cannot be spoken of.


our family is lke that... completely... my mothers side.. all bitch about each other behind their backs... so it wil be emotional cut off ... and my dad doesnt speak to his family AT ALL... so thats what, physical cut off? but then again, shud that effect me? i stil have my parents and sister living with me...


5) a frightening or shameful incident connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that and not resolved by the age of 9. Occasionally this happened to someone else rather than the victim. Sometimes vomiting gets hooked in with other forms of sickness instead which have frightened the victim, even if he or she did not vomit.


yeah.. had a few of them which i can remember so clearly its unbelievable... times when i had v*ed and when others had too ... i believe thats quite a big reason as to WHY i have this phobia.. because wen i was ill, i'd be treated lke a disease, so i began to learn that v*ing is a bad bad bad thing.

Jen xxxxxx

[Eternity]

Not meaning to be purely critical, but dont you think that most of those apply to most people, not just emetophobics?


Im sure that everyone could think of a occasion where they were lost or alone as a kid, n divorce or seperation of families is hardly rare in todays world. On anxiety dissorders depression n alcoholism.. I dont know any family where noone suffers from anything... My families got all three, (both manic n unipolar depression) n a whole lot more just in these two generations, n I consider them mostly normal. Avoidance is more of a result than a cause of emetophobia surely? The brains so powerful that ya CAN stop yourself from being sick, emets are proof. On the way the phobic gets treated by family,- it seems youve covered all angles- seems like youre saying that getting coddled, or having your phobia denied or any kind of emotional reaction, OR being ignored since someone else has the attention could make you worse? Then how should the family react? What other possibilities are left? On frightening or shameful incidents- all kids get sick a lot, chances are somethin nastys happened to ya by age 9, but not everyone becomes emet... I dunno what ya mean by unresolved tho.


sorry, i cant resist being utterly critical...lol.[img]smileys/smilies_09.gif[/img] I dont haveany answers so youre already doin somethin I cant tho.

[Jenneh]

eternity: altho u are right ... the factors sage has written can be reasons as to WHY we get this phobia... but, as u say, yes, eveyrone goes thru things lke that in their lifes.... but the difference is, we have reacted this way, and not everyone does..


so what sage said, was right, in that those can all be causes for our phobia.. but it doesnt mean that everyojne who goes thru those factors wil get emet or any kinda phobia.


and i understand what ur saying about how, the two extremes of family reactions are brought up ... but it just shows how important it is to be neutral as a parent... i.e. not molly-coddle someone and not neglect them. . . .


Jen xxx

[izzybee]

1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.

My parents divorced when I was 11. For the last 4 years I havent had a stable home and swap between houses every weekend (in fact i'm moving tonight )

2) hereditary factors (history of anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family orancestors going back3 generations)

I think my dad my be phobic or may of in the past. Apparently according to my mum he really hates moths. I think he may have anxiety problems but who knows!

3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)

Yes, deffenatly

4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively "coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the point is that there is a family focus on the victim.) Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or physical symptoms of something).

I'm not sure on this one. My mum thinks she understandsbut doesnt and doesnt understand that she doesnt understand!! I think that part of my problem is that my mum is too involved. (was that what you meant?)

5) a frightening or shameful incident connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that and not resolved by the age of 9. Occasionally this happened to someone else rather than the victim. Sometimes vomiting gets hooked in with other forms of sickness instead which have frightened the victim, even if he or she did not vomit.

yes! When I was 9 and on a coach someone v* they wernt near me but I didnt know and wasnt told that people can get travel sickness and it scared me so much. I'm not sure why it did or why it started then but it did. This happened twice in about a month!! This isnt how my phobia started tho. But I think it certainly made it worse!!


[/QUOTE]





Edited by: izzybee

[sage]

Hey guys,


Thanks for all your thougthtful replies. Funny, some of you have said one of these doesn't apply, then you mention something that does apply. Margaret, I think having a cousin with anxietywould constitute a hereditary factor - the heredity part is still unproven, but anxiety does tend to run in families for one reason or another.


Eternity: you're quite right in the sense that no one escapes their childhood unscathed. It's sort of a matter of degree, and amatter of how the neurosis will be manifested ina person. Phobia is just one way. Other people develop other forms of neurosis, some of which are serious - others mild. As for "choices left" for parents to treat you - the point is not whether they're mean or nice - it's not black and white like that. It's a matter of an "anxious focus". Most parents of phobics anxiously focus on them - EITHER by fussing and fretting and trying to "help them" or by being angry or neglectful. It's hard for people in families like these to understand or see any different way of relating. But if you look at the whole family as the "thing" with the problem, instead of just the person with the symptoms, it makes more sense. If there are a couple of kids, one kid sort of gets "ignored" perhaps because the other kid has anxiety or sickness or whatever and everybody is focusing on them all the time. In fact, the kid who's "ignored" is symptom-free because the other one is bearing all of the family's anxiety. Non-anxious families are just that - non-anxious. They may even appear as "uncaring", but they're not. They're just calm and confident that their kids are ok (sometimes symptoms show up in one spouse, so calm families don't focus on them either while anxious families all focus on the parent with the symptoms). It's sort of a catch-22 once you're in it.Let's saya kid gets sick, then mom frets and worries, thus "handing over" her anxiety to the kid. If the kid stays sick then it actually keeps mom calmer cuz there's a focus for her anxiety and she's just "right" as opposed to worried or confused. Then it goes round and round.


Age 9 seems to be important and I don't know why - I just keep reading it in articles and books. It must have something to do with brain/social development at the time.


As for a "healthy family system", there is no such thing. It's like the word "normal" - no such thing in families. There are only degrees. Bowen used a scale from 0-100. 0 is in a straight-jacked in some mental hospital, but 100 is a "mythical creature". Most people fall around 50. People marry people at the same level they're at, and have kids some (or one)of whom are worse than the parents, and some (or one) who is better than the parents. So that "black sheep" of every family is really an indicator of the level of anxiety of the whole family system, not just that one person.


As for the avoidance factor: maybe I didn't explain it right. You all fit this one, cuz you all avoid vomiting like (the plague? lol) You also avoid other people who are vomiting. And as every day passes and you don't vomit yourself, your brain is avoiding the scary stimulus - making the phobia worse. If your neurosis had gotten hooked into peeing instead of vomiting, you could only avoid it for 6 or 8 hours not years, so you'd naturally get over it (that's what happened to lots of those families, Eternity - their "phobia" got hooked into something simple and impossible to avoid. I gues emetophobes are just damn unlucky on the avoidance angle.)


My point in making this list, is that emetophobes have all 5 of these factors in some form or another - a kind of genetic and circumstantial jackpot adding up to the emetophobia. Remembering the unresolved attac

[rhinoseri]

[QUOTE=sage]

Well, guys - here's the result of a year or so of my
research for my book. Tell me whether this list of causes rings
true for you, or what doesn't:
What emetophobia-sufferers have in common isalmost alwayssomething like this:</font>
1) unresolved attachment issues
(separation anxiety) stemming from either childhood loss (through
death, divorce, abuse, neglect, or trauma) - even if it can't be
remembered as significant [so in rare cases it might just be that you
got lost at the mall, or were afraid to go to school, or your cat ran
away]. Occasionally the only trauma is a traumatic birth.

</font>
Nothing too
traumatic happened to me, there were some deathes and such, but the
other only thing sort of related to this was moving around so much. My
emet started right before we moved to England for the 1st time. After
that I've moved 7 times. Abuse-wise, more mental that physical. Stuff
like reminding me or telling other people about all the bad things
about me. Exaggerating the stuff they tell, also.</font>

</font>



2) hereditary factors (history of
anxiety disorders, depression, alcoholism, etc. somewhere in the family
orancestors going back3 generations)

</font>Well, my
grandmother on my mother's side has OCD, which I believe has passed
down to me, and then my other grandmother, on my dad's side- I remember
asking her how often she threw up, since she has only just retired from
being a 3rd grade teacher for many many years. She told me that she has
only thrown up two times in her life, but isn't emetophobic.</font>

</font>


3) avoidance of the feared stimulus which was allowed to continue (with emetophobia it continues simply by not vomiting for a long time)

</font>


Yeah, I don't vomit all
that often. I last threw up on April 9th, 2002, but before that I only
remember throwing up 3 times in my whole life.</font>

</font>



4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system:
someone in thefamily systemwho ischronically anxious
about the phobic's disorder (either by worrying or fretting, by getting
angry and denying the disorder in the victim,OR by excessively
"coddling", trying to "fix" the phobic or just wanting to "help" - the
point is that there is a family focus on the victim.)
Sometimes there isso much chronic anxiety in the family that it
is focussed on something or someone else (someone else has mental or
physical symptoms of something). </font>


Another indicator of family anxiety is "cutoff":</font>someone
in the family is "not speaking to" or "speaking about"someone
else - somewhere in the system of people who are still alive, but
occasionally the person cutoff is dead. Cutoff can occasionally
be emotional rather than physical, so a relationship is maintained, but
the two people do not speak of anything but shallow small-talk and
avoid some major "issue" that cannot be spoken of.

</font>


Well, my mom and dad
pretend to throw up quite often, and tell me if they ever feel sick,
they'll throw up on me. I suppose they think that the only way I will
get better is if they throw up on me, or I throw up. My brother also
does the "Anna, do this- or I'll throw up" and he says that I wouldn't
be afraid of throwing up anymore if he threw up on me... Not exactly
true.</font>

</font>



5) a frightening or shameful incident
connected with vomiting happening around the age of 9 or before that
and not r

[Abi]

1,2, and 5 for me. I have real separation anxiety problems. I also have a history of depression and anxiety in my family. For number 5, there are several incidents, that didn't happen to me, but that I saw happen to other people, which have really affected me. When I was 9 at school, this girl V***** all over me. I was horrified. I also remember a girl who was ill, and she v******* all down the staircase from our classroom. I will never forget that.

[sage]

Abi,


#3 is true for everyone (see above). As well, I wonder how #4 (your family system) operates in relation to you and your phobia. It would be interesting to know. Read my last post over carefully and see if any of it rings true for you.

[Abi]

Yeah, number three is definately true for me. I'm really not sure about number 4 though. My family don't take a huge interest in my phobia. They just try and understand it, and do what they can to make things easier for me.

[Eternity]

[QUOTE=sage]
1) unresolved attachment issues (separation anxiety)
Haha stories... my first day at school I hid under the table n refused to come out. The headmaster who thought at the time he was the worlds leading expert on kids couldnt even get me out, I simply didnt wanna be in that environment... I think at age 4 being with ya exact peers is a horrific experience, a kind of 'what, am I not the only one' feeling.


2) hereditary factors


In three generations: manic and unipolar depression, panic attacks, alcohol abuse, all manor of anxiety dissorders, and emetophobia. theres plenty more but those sound the most relevant.


3) avoidance


But what if you fear the fear itself the most- You fear panic attacks, and you have them, but the fear doesnt get any less. Or you fear certain trapping situations like food shopping, or going to the library, and you do them day after day, but you dont learn that these things arent threatening. If avoidance is key, then why do studies show that emets who make themselves deliberatly sick to get better, actually often get worse? The last time I was sick myself was only 4 years ago.. well retching anyway. It didnt make me any better or worse in my opinion.


4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system:


Anxiety... yes.. my God, my mother could worry for England. Mostly thankfully its not about me. My Grans dying in hospital, daddy on anti Ds n my brother just left school and refuses to do anything in life, so for the moment shes plenty to keep her amused, but I can see what ya mean about emotional reactions. Someone not going food shopping when theyre supposed to can cause a fight in this house, even though they all love each other etc etc.


Small talk.. hmm. I wonder about that a lot when I see her letters to my aunt and uncles, they seem never to say anything, but then I suppose thats just the way a lot of adults talk to each other isnt it?


5) a frightening or shameful incident


*Graphic bits*


Well, for a longish while I thought my trigger was a night when I was about 4 or 5 and very ill. I remember both my parents being irate and tired, and trying to make me lie down and sleep, but each time I lay down I was sick again. My dad got pissed at me cuz I drank some of his juice too. lol. It wasnt nice at the time tho, I was quite scared.


When I was about 6, this girl in my class threw up everywhere.. I didnt see much- it was after lunch n I musta been late comin back in, but I remember the teacher goin round picking bits up with a tissue. It was pink. Everyone was talking about it, kinda... what is the word? not being very nice about her- sayin it was gross n she just sat there bringing up more n more n ya'd think she'd go to the toilet.


When I was very small- too young to remember really(that would be anything before the age of 4!) my dad used to get ulcersquite badly, and it wasnt unusual for him to spend whole nights being sick. Sometimes it was so bad he'd spend the night on the sofa with a bucket. He thinks I might have come down sometime and seen something. I have no recolection.


[i]Finally.... (in this one I was about 13 so it was probably too late to have an impact) I came home from school one lunchtime to find my gran sitting on the stairs being sick. She couldnt move, and wouldnt let me call a ambulance, or my mother. For a terrifying half hour, that f

[sage]

Thanks, Eternity. This was very insightful. Quite the life you've had - poor thing. Rest assured the older you get the better it will get!


As for avoidance and purposely vomiting: the trick is gradual exposure. Vomiting, for phobics, is far too overwhelming to do any good. While you're doing it you're usually sure you are in danger, as opposed to figuring out you're not. It must be a very gradual thing. If you vomited every day for the rest of your life, trust me: your phobia would go away. Of course, you'd have other problems!


I can't really comment on fearing panic attacks or panic disorder (unrelated to vomiting). Perhaps in a sense if you have a panic attack every day, then the other 23 hours and 45 minutes you're avoiding (i.e., worrying about it). Avoidance is not so much a purposeful intent as it is an overwhelming controlling force: if you panicked every time you went grocery shopping, the urge to avoid grocery shopping would be very very huge. But once you start actually avoiding grocery shopping, the ability to ever do it again would be severely compromised.


Again, there's a difference between exposing oneself ANXIOUSLY and exposing oneself gradually, well-supported and intentionally bringing down the anxiety while still exposed. This is what works. Otherwise, it's overwhelming and tends to make the phobia worse.


Hope this helps.

[Eternity]

Then could one not argue that if youre phobic of somethin that happens a few times a day, like peeing (cuz ya used that example before!), then ya could actually still be afraid of it because the 23 hours n whatever a day you werent doing it youd be worrying about it?
On a bad day I can get upto four or five panic attacks in a day, varying from full on being sure Im about to throw up or pass out or both, shivering n heart racing to just feelin a lil shaky, a lil too aware of whats goin on around me n the world startin to close in.


I cant see how panic is unrelated to emet or vomitting if you panic because of emet, or the panic makes ya feel sick because its what you fear the most. n ya can actually work ya self up to the point of being sick, its hard, but possible.
Meh. I totally get what ya mean about stopping doin somethin making it impossible to go back to.. thats why Im outta uni n work now. on the plus side tho, my sudden aversion to public transport means im gettin pretty fit. lol.

[sage]

ok, so the 23-hour thing was a bad example. As I said, I can't comment on panic attacks unrelated to any specific stimulus. In the first post you said you feared panic attakcs themselves...then the next time you said you panic because of emet.I don't know about the former, but if it's vomiting you fear, or embarassing yourself, then the point is that this isn't happening therefore you are (naturally) avoiding it. The panic attacks are a result of the continual avoidance that naturally happens day in and day out when you're not vomiting. If it was the sight of the ocean that terrified you, and you lived inland, you'd have the same problem. But if you lived on the coast and saw the ocean every day - or sat beside it for hours on end, then the panic of seeing it would eventually go away.


AGAIN, I'm not using the concept of avoidance as something emets do intentionally, as though they should be doing something else. It's natural that vomiting is avoided, because people don't do it every day of their lives day in and day out. Hence the sense of fear escalates.

[Eternity]

Hmm.. youre rite, I contridicted myself a bit there, maybe its both panic attacks and sickness that Im scared of... I dunno, my logic seems to go somethin like- What do I fear? I fear sickness... but sickness itself isnt all that terrible to me when it happens, so maybe its not the act, but the connotations of the act that terrify me (ya know, like the way people who may start off being afraid of the dark and then become afraid of spiders- because they see spiders in dark places n they relate them to a feared stimulus... then they might outgrow fearing the dark, but carry on being scared of spiders) so if sickness is my 'spider' then whats my 'dark'? what are the connotations of sickness? panic. discomfort. embarrasment. But it seems illogical to say that I fear these things per se, although I dislike them. Nor are they a logical adaptive fear like being scared of the dark... so Im left unsure of what exactly it is that Im afraid of. Somewhere somehow some pattern of thinking has just gone wrong, leaving me overly focussed on internal stimuli and sickness... and I dont really know why, because theres no mental block preventing me from knowing I can cope with the physical act of throwing up.


I grasp what youre sayin about avoidance, but Im curious about what ya said about 'panic attacks unrelated to any specific stimulus'- If a emetophobe has a panic attack, n part of the panic attack is nausea, which is almost bound to be, can you say its unrelated to emet? whether the emet caused the panic attack in the first place, or just triggered a reaction leading to more panic once the nausea kicked in, its still relevant, and were it not for the emet the person probably wouldnt be having panics anyway- emetophobia has a major impact on... well how neurotic you are, doesnt it? for want of a better expression. I would have thought emets were almost constantly more aroused, therefore much more predisposed to panic, in our case, is there really any such thing as a panic attack unrelated to any specific stimuli?

[sage]

yup - emet and panic attacks go together. I was referring to people who have panic attacks who aren't emets (when I said I don't really know much about that).


As for you, you're probably right that the "anticipatory anxiety" is always the worst or most feared. That's true for everyone. Once something happens it's not nearly as horrible as you imagine it will be when you're just scared it might.


As for root causes, etc...you're also correct that a lot of stuff gets hooked in together, and separating it all out is kinda like sorting out Christmas lights you put away in a big ball. You just work on one string at a time, and it can take a long time. That's where good therapists really help- they help with the sorting.

[sage]

I took this topic off "sticky" now, and will let it run its natural course.

[HDogg]

#1,2,3, and 5 are definitely true. Not too sure about #4. I will have to think on this and see what I can remember. I will elaborate later on when I have more time--it's a crazy day! But you're right on the money, Sage!

[pink_flamingo]

I think 5 and 2 fit me very well. My mom has a severe fear of heights and depression and so does my grandmother. I had an experence at 3 that cuased my emetophobia so there is # 5

[Misha]

Sage,


Mine is number 1 with a twist that I found interesting. At the age of 6, my sister was born. From that time on, my mom wanted me to be the big, older sister...basically to stop being a baby and needing her so much.She also went back into the hospital after my sister was born because she was hemmoraghing. She stayed for a month and since I was so little, my grandmother and father who were with us, never told me if or when she'd be home. I guess they figured I was too little to understand. I felt abandoned. I became VERY school phobic at the time and my father would carry me in and drop me off screaming and crying and I'd be that way until he picked me up. I was also being bullied so I had a double whammy at school.


Anyway, back to my point. The only way my grandmother would let me stay home was if I threw up. I don't remember forcing myself to do so but I remember lying about it. After my mother got backhome, I told her about thebullyingand she told me I had to deal with it. From that moment on I never asked for any emotional support from her again. I felt let down and sad and I remember thinking that I had to take care of myself. EXCEPT fora pattern which developed with either pretending I threw up so I could stay home and get attentionORif I was truly sick both my mother and father were there for me completely and unconditionally. It was theONE andONLY time that I knew for CERTAIN that I would get help (even from dad)if I asked for it.


So in my child mind vomiting = the worst possible thing since my parents rescued me at those times and took care of me. To this day the only people who have ever seen me be sick are my mom and dad and maybe an aunt who took care of me once. My whole life I had total and complete support when I was sick to my stomach. I think it might have been one of the few times my parents had a way to judge I was really sick since I lied so often to get out of school.


Anyway, someone told me this was like munchausen's...that I created illness to get the attention I wasn't getting? Even now I am a hypochondriac and I wonder sometimes if I still long to be taken seriously.....


I'd like to know what you think of all this.


xoxoxooxo


Misha

[sage]

I'd hardly say you created it - that's a stunning example of "blame the victim". I'd say something like just - "that's how it got hooked in" meaning hooked into your entire neurosis.


Heather, #4 fits your family totally because your mom has emet. Maybe I wasn't too clear about 4, as I re-read it. If anyone in your family system has any symptoms AT ALL, then that goes to an anxious system: so if anyone is depressed, phobic, alcoholic, or even physically ill chronically (MS, cancer, etc etc.) or acts out in sexual, physical or emotional abuse then #4 is checked off. My explanation, above, is aimed at people whose families DON'T display any of these syptoms...but the family still anxiously "focuses" on the victim (either by fussing or being angry, etc.) Cutoff in the extended family is another anxious manifestation.


So doesn't this fit every family you might ask? Exactly. Yes, it does. It's merely a matter of degree. The more anxiety (now I'm using this word in another way than anxiety disorders)in the system, the more someone will have symptoms either physical or mental, and the worse those symptoms will be.

[Galadriel]

1) unresolved attachment issues Well, I was 3 months premature, and so spent about 3 months away from mom and dad, in an incubator, so I bet that dont help things much for this issue. Also, mom went in and out of the hospital a lot while I was very young, starting at age 7 all the way up till mabye a few years ago (shes moved out so I dont see her now anyways) , for her mental problems (shes bipolar manicdepressive)
2) hereditary factors Yep, mom was bipolar manic depressive, and her mom is too.
3) avoidance Yep, dont vomit often, so that dont help, tho that is recently changing (really a good thing).
4) A chronically or acutely anxious family system: Well, my dad refuses to acknowlege I even have this problem. Ive offered to talk about it with him, show him the site, he still insists I have this freak fetish about throwing up.



5) a frightening or shameful incident Well, I had a real bad stomach bug when I was 9, and it was just a week straight of throwing up, so yeah that did me in pretty good. Edited by: Galadriel

[Misha]

No, I didn't say that right.I meant I created fake illness and situations to manipulatewhat I wasn't getting when I realized I could getattention that one way.So there wasn't a 'real' illness that my parents or a doctor would see, only the unseen illness of my screaming out for attention that they couldn't see. I got some of what I wanted by playing sickly, fragile Michele.


xoxoxooxxo


Misha

[sage]

Ya - it's still not your fault though. You were just a little kid.

[Misha]

Oh, that's what you meant. No, I don't think it was my fault at all. I don't feel that. I'm working witha therapist now to unlearnthose oldpatterns.


xoxoxoxoxxo


Misha